Are there any swim secrets?

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Are there any swim secrets?

Post by SA on Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:46 am

In the avarage pool, there are quite some freestylers doing laps who cant barely sprint a 100 m faster than 1min 45.
Some even swim a lot of miles every week. Looking at their strokes it often looks like they dont have a clue what they are doing. In that sense, they dont know some things of how to swim.
From that perspective you could say there are indeed some swim secrets that a lot of people are unaware off.
What are the swim secrets that most people in a recreational pool are missing?
What have you discovered that makes you faster than the rest and is a thing that they dont understand?

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Re: Are there any swim secrets?

Post by nightcrawler on Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:04 am

My point of view in the order of importance:

1. To swim faster the arm cadance should be higher. Most of the adult learners are assuming that gliding will make them faster bacause they are so much watching the olympians videos in slow motion so that they are adding pauses to their strokes and keeping the cadance lower.

2. To swim faster kicking mostly should be less during training. Again adult learners are watching the olympians's strong and frequent kick and trying to imitate it without thinking that kick whether will suit them or not. If you dont come from a swim club, doing strong and effective kick (which creates propelling force) like a swimmer is almost impossible after the age of 20. So it will be better to learn the proper horizontal balance by lifting the lefs through the use of erector spinae and hip muscles will be time saving.

3. There must be proper hand entry. Avoing the low elbow and cross hand entry is essential for faster swimmer, by doing this we are also avoiding the drag forces on the front end.

4. Pulling through instead of doing S shape is another key for faster swimmer. While doing the S shape pull our hands and elbows lenghthen their route and loose time for the following arm cycle, S shape actually dont contribute to distance per stroke to a considerable extent but decreases the cadance, so avoing the S shape pull and doing I shape pull will make us faster.

5. Symmetrical swimming is a must not only for faster swimming but also for joints' health. Breathing in each 3 or 5 strokes will lead to symmetrical muscle development.

6. For swimming faster we make a periodization and focus on interval training. Swimming discipline is mostly based on interval training. There are types of intervals, adult learns must be aware of these methods and write down daily, weekly, monthly, seasonal programs. Adult learners generally jump into the pool and swim 1 hu continuously, but professional athletes train for sport seasons utilizing periodization. Periods are usually constructed of anywhere from 4-6 phases. Each phase has its own unique goal or objective. When it comes to swimming this can be an amazing concept when actually planned out. When our body has finally coped with the insanity of your training program and staleness starts to set in, we up and change the game. We switch up the focus and add new stimulation in order to trigger a new set of adaptations. There are usually 8-12 week cycles in each phase of training. The changing up of the objectives in each phase and in your training style can transform your body and shatter plateaus altogether. For more information please read the article: http://myswimpro.com/blog/2016/02/12/how-to-build-a-yearly-training-plan/

7. To swim faster, athletes shoud follow a diet program. Go to a dietitian in each 3 months she will write down what you should/shouldnt eat according to your blood values.

8. Take lessons from a swimmer not from buffoons. Train with the real swimmers who are faster and better swimmers than you. At least once a week joing the sessions of a swim club with 13-15 years old children, swimming with fast children will make you faster and feel younger Smile


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Re: Are there any swim secrets?

Post by cottmiler on Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:01 am

My two cents:

http://theraceclub.com/videos/secret-tip-how-to-pull-underwater-drills/

This video has a lot of the points so nicely made by "Grumpy".

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Re: Are there any swim secrets?

Post by Don Wright on Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:52 am

IMO the FS "best secret" (learnt from SS days!) is that any pulling effort expended when a limb, or portion of it, is not facing backwards (or at the very least, making an angle of 45 degrees below the surface) - is wasted effort because most of the effort is directed down towards the pool bottom.

In the case of arm action : -

(1) We learnt quite early on, that not extending the arm at water entry absolutely "ram-rod straight" has the effect of "putting the brakes on".

(2) The down-sweep to a catch needs to be a more gentle action compared with the other phases of arm action - otherwise it disturbs body balance and propulsion-wise is a bit of wasted effort
.
(3) A high elbow catch (EVF) reaches a shallower catch a bit faster, than dropping an almost straight arm down, (the latter moves on a circular arc of longer radius).  In both cases however, the early tilting over of the hand can be an effective help. This apparent benefit of the EVF catch may be outweighed by the fact that the subsequent pull will be shallower than the almost straight arm pull - since the backward-facing effect of the upper arm is much reduced in a pull after the EVF catch.


As "nightcrawler" has written about the old "S" bend idea - I thought it had long ago been discarded in favour of a more straight arm pull through.  Initially I used it before joining the old SS forum, but was very disturbed by the "automatic" body roll it produces, first one way, during the outward part of the sweep, and then the other way as the hand is brought back close to the centre line for the push.  It just takes too long with very little "pay-off".  With the straighter arm pull - you've got to do your own planned body rolls!  Laughing

(4) Relative disposition of both arms during the stroke cycle can be made more propulsive in effect by allowing a bit of "wind-milling" and reducing the time when only the legs provide propulsion i.e. minimal gliding  (Now where did we get that idea from? Laughing).  To preserve "good body balance" most coaches favour an "arm catch-up" style of arm action, in which the lead arm only starts descending to a catch - when the recovering arm is, more or less, at mid-recovery. (FQS arm action!) IMO one's balance actually becomes worse the more "catch-up" arm action is present - but maybe this is just a personal thing!   In theory (as already discussed ages ago on SS) the ultimate disposition of both arms is to have the lead arm ready to take up propulsive work at, or very near, the time when the rear arm ceases doing propulsive work - provided one avoids the situation when both arms are simultaineously in the water and both engaged in doing propulsive work - that is in effect going to produce conflict in the UW flow patterns.  For that reason, I reckon there is a lot to be gained by starting to drop the lead arm down to a catch, very near the rear arm's exit from the water.  OK! - so this is a bit more tiring for the arms, but some muscular rest can be obtained during a gentle down-sweep of the lead arm to it's catch.


(5) Flutter kicking - There seems to be a lot of evidence "out there" that there is a positive benefit in using a moderate amount of knee bend at the start of kick downbeats  - (although of course the recovery has to bring the legs back up to the horizontal to avoid "curl back" drag) - because that presents some backward-facing area of a lower leg (the shin) as it kicks down, and furthermore brings the sole of the foot more horizontal at the start of a kick downbeat.  That "pays off" as the lower leg kicks down!  Of course flexible ankles/feet are a highly desirable attribute - but how many of us are satisfied with our capability in that department. (On his "GoSwim" DVD Jason Lezak has a little "moan" that he has not payed much attention to the flexibility of his feet for a while - so he demonstrates using his foot-rack to improve things. Torture IMO!).   Especially with those of us a bit "over the hill"  Rolling Eyes the ankles/feet are definitely not flexible - and the feet are scarcely ever backward-facing near the start of a kick downbeat, to produce good propulsion forwards when flutter kicking.  For such "unfortunates", IMO the best answer is to keep the leg action as shallow as feasible and possibly speed it up a bit - energy levels permitting!

Another thing that I've noticed, and seems to be borne out by studying elites video clips of them sprinting - is that during flutter kicking, the thighs barely come in front of the torso line, even though there may be quite a degree of knee bend for the start of the flutter kick downbeat.  The whole leg action seems to be behind the body line - so effectively driving the body at a slight angle upwards as the lower legs/feet thrash down. (Think this "levering" upwards of the front of the body also happens in fly stroke - as one completes the major kick downbeat, by vigorously thrashing the lower legs/feet down, a very short instant before the arms start the push back/up to the surface - there is a noticeable "leverage" that occurs.)

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Re: Are there any swim secrets?

Post by Mike A on Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:34 am

The single biggest, most common error I see is scissor kicking. It's usually combined with either over-rotation/head-lifting or crossing the centre-line, or both.
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Re: Are there any swim secrets?

Post by SA on Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:40 am

When I was 6-7 years old, I had learned to not drown and was allowed to row to school.
The school could be reached by road, but also by a water channel. In summer many times I rowed a few miles to school instead of walking. In the spare time I also was rowing and trying differnt paddle strokes for fun. After a while I became quite good at rowing.
Until this day I am still searching for ways to transfer the total bodypower to the water as it is possible in rowing.

http://rowingbiomechanics.weebly.com/

It always feels as I am only using half the amount of power that could be used.
Swimming is much more complicated than rowing.
The problem is that you dont only have to row, but also have to make your own boat.

A swimmer is the rower, but also the boat.

The boat has to be firm, sleek and streamlined to apply power to efficiently.
The swimmer wants to use all the available muscles to power his paddle.

The swimmer has to find his personal compromise between these 2 requirements.
Probably its never possible to release all the power to the paddle like its possible in rowing, because the effort to build the boat always has te be subtracted from it.
But the best swimmers make their boat smarter than a rigid hull to partly offset this disadvantage.
How? Still learning, like an adult tries to learn how to speak fluent chinese Evil or Very Mad Smile

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Re: Are there any swim secrets?

Post by nightcrawler on Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:34 pm

As far as I saw/observed in World Masters World Championships there are 3 swim secrets for freestyle swimming:

1. As much as water specific Power.
2. Power rules the technique (i.e if you are powerful, you can be more flat and comfortable in the water)
3. Power rules the cadance(strokes per minute)

That's it, nothing more.

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Re: Are there any swim secrets?

Post by cottmiler on Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:40 pm


I rather like this video. It mentions some of the things we have discovered over the years.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z59s13BVDrE

I think I can now do this fast skip along the top of the water stroke, apart from the leg kick.

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Re: Are there any swim secrets?

Post by Sprinter on Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:42 pm

cottmiler wrote:
I rather like this video.

Quite nice; for the video I think one can see (for the stroke) that she is rather short (and not a male): high frequency, not extremely powerful (so a taller male would look a bit different). In principle it seems to me that that stroke is rather similar to what I am aiming at (with a lower frequency, at least for the time being).

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Re: Are there any swim secrets?

Post by nightcrawler on Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:37 pm

cottmiler wrote:
I rather like this video.  It mentions some of the things we have discovered over the years.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z59s13BVDrE

I think I can now do this fast skip along the top of the water stroke, apart from the leg kick.

we are always watching but remaining th same... do you think that watching something will help doing it, i.e can you do 100 pullups by watching?
https://youtu.be/6Pg5praLARA



Last edited by nightcrawler on Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:18 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Are there any swim secrets?

Post by Mike A on Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:12 pm

It's a pure sprint technique IMO. Shoulder-driven, strong 6-beat kick, classic head-position. I could hold that style (not that speed!) for maybe 50m at the most. No way I could use that technique for a 5km event.

NC, your comment made me laugh because it reminded me of something - my 10-year-old son was very frustrated to learn he wasn't transformed into a world-class tennis player after two weeks of studying Roger Federer playing at Wimbledon. He had thought that just by watching and copying he would be able to play like Fed. If only it were that simple... Laughing
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Re: Are there any swim secrets?

Post by Tom65 on Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:26 am

1. Get comfortable with being uncomfortable.
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Re: Are there any swim secrets?

Post by nightcrawler on Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:41 am

In order to run the software faster you should have not only a proper algorithm but also a proper hardware. Here are some shoulder and scapular mobility exercises that makes difference in your swimming:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yf7uelVHdig
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOQv0VZiQa8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ptYZc3BJv4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5BuC-bZ9WQ&t=358s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0wbm23_gMQ

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