Nightcrawler's Journey to European Masters Swimming Championships (Slovenia)

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Re: Nightcrawler's Journey to European Masters Swimming Championships (Slovenia)

Post by nightcrawler on Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:25 am

Today I didnt swim in the morning due to unwillingness, maybe in the afternoon I can go to the pool.

Hi SA,
I also support that being fit and powerful can shelter the mistakes and provide a better pace than your opponents who are not fit like you. Such being the case not only technique but also I being healthier and stronger which supports higher cadance and better body position is a must for us to achieve our goals. Note that also power and flexibility rules the technique, imagine that you can achieve 1:10 pace per 100m by doing 100 strokes per minute, then why dont you do it, what is limiting you? Let me guess the reasons:
1) Due to shoulder health and flexibility cant reach up to 100 strokes per min.
2) Due to lack of core stability and left right shifting mechanism cant manage and sustain the higher cadance technique(even if you can reach the 100 strokes per minute for only a 100m you cant sustain it due to fatique).
3) Endurance and cardiovascular health.
4) Bad horizontal body position due to lack of ankle flexibility.
5) Lack of power for coping with the frontal drag.
etc...

In FINA masters world champs. I saw that the swimmers who have worse technique and body psoition than me could be faster than me thanks to their cute shapes and better fitness levels.

Increase the weekly vlume 50% and everyday dryland exercises then we you will realize the improvement.

As a result I can say that, higher volume training and more dry land mobility exercises can make us faster and sustainable without doing extra magic in our technique, with the help of more exercises our body will find a better solution for itself.

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Re: Nightcrawler's Journey to European Masters Swimming Championships (Slovenia)

Post by nightcrawler on Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:47 pm

13.09.2017 - Lunch Time Session - LCM 2000m

Set1: 1500m crawl with paddles and drag trunk (20:32, avg pace:1:22, 1st 500m:6:54, 2nd 500m:6:52, 3rd 500m:6:45)

2 min break

Set2: 500m crawl with paddles and with slip trunk (6:35, pace:1:19)

Note: Due to lack of time I cut off the training but did the core sets which will be useful for my race events. I was reluctant in the morning and also at lunch time when I arrived at the pool, but the paces became better than I expected, my mood got better.

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Re: Nightcrawler's Journey to European Masters Swimming Championships (Slovenia)

Post by nightcrawler on Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:22 am

14.09.2017 - Morning Session 6:30-7:30 - LCM 4000m

100m easy

Set1: 1500m crawl with paddles (20:45, pace:1:23)

100 easy

Set2: 1500m crawl hand drag drill (23:15, pace:1:33)

100m easy

Set3: 10*50m crawl R:5" (total time recoveries included: 7:13)

200 easy


Notes: This was the 3rd workout since I came back to Istanbul from holiday. It is hard to endure the stress of the big city, disgusting! There are customers for out flat at the moment, nowadays we can sell the flat and move to Antalya (mediterranean coast of Turkey)
Anyway, I am getting into my good form again, in set3 i did a good job, 7:13 with the recoveries included quite good for me.

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Re: Nightcrawler's Journey to European Masters Swimming Championships (Slovenia)

Post by cottmiler on Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:35 am

Is this similar to your new style nightcrawler?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5HLW2AI1Ink


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Re: Nightcrawler's Journey to European Masters Swimming Championships (Slovenia)

Post by s.sciame on Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:53 am

SA wrote:

There was a triathlete in the pool. his kick still had a lot of bicycle kick in it. his arm strokes wernt great either. He was only halfway of looking like a swimmer. training 5 times a week on swimming. could swim 1500 m in 22 minutes. 5 years swimming experience. he was pretty fitt.

Self coached? Swimming on his own? If so, he must be gifted. Many other fit self coached triathletes continue to suck at swimming even after training consistently for years. I believe swimming is not as simple as showing up at the pool 5 times a week without knowing what to do and eventually swim 22 mins over 1500 in a few years. Maybe running or cycling is like that, but swimming requires some more teaching and coaching. And swimming with better swimmers perhaps. This season I wanted to join a master squad but they're moving to another pool with inconvenient logistics, too bad Mad
Just yesterday I had an opportunity to swim a set of 50's on tight interval with one of these better swimmers and, despite I was all but fresh (he invited me while I was at the 27th rep of a 30x100m at 1:30-1:33 int. 1:45), just watching him in the next lane sharing the effort and the challenge made me push harder and complete the set. I'm not lazy at swimming, I always diligently push myself out of my comfort zone when I go to the pool. But I also recognize that, having never swam in a squad, I miss this kind of challenge.

Salvo

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Re: Nightcrawler's Journey to European Masters Swimming Championships (Slovenia)

Post by nightcrawler on Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:00 pm

I saw some adults who have become very good swimmers in a couple of months without any coaching or support. It depends on the talent(anatomy, capability of the body and the health of the person, we may also add "intelligence" to these, both have role in swimming faster). Being gifted is the 90% of the success and rest is the (properly)hard working and robust discipline.


One of the examples:

There is a swimmer competing in 50-100m-200m events in our country who started swimming 2 years ago without any swimming knowledge and technique. He was swimming 13 secs 25m free in his first jump with head up freestyle technique and also by greeting the left and right sides(head up looking left and right while moving the arms). Within a couple of months(2-3 months) he has become a good swimmer and has been breaking the 30-34 age group's 50-100 free records (50m free:24sec, 100m free:56sec, 200m free:2:04). He was also shocked like everyone when he saw this performance. 2 years ago his doctor recommended him swimming for the treatment of his congenital hyperkinesia disorder(hyper flexibility of the joints and vertebral organs) and also being flat-footed(he has also no lumbar space, small lumbar space is not good for land bases activities - note that big lumbar space creates drag in the water, for that reason the runners or Africans can run better than they swim). Swimming is a water sport and wter is 800 times denser than the weather (the environment we are living and to what we are not accustomed to) so that swimming requires water-convenient, fluent, wrinkle-free or drag-free and flexible body and that skinny guy has these properties.

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Re: Nightcrawler's Journey to European Masters Swimming Championships (Slovenia)

Post by SA on Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:01 am

I am convinced a completely rigid body is bad thing in swimming.
Just like an earthquake resistent building there has to be some give in the structure to not load it with local excessive stresses. There has to be some undulation rolling from front to rear.
Thats not to say buildings should be made from boiled spaghetti.

So Nighytcrawler your new more roll technique makes you move more in the right direction as I see it?





its obvious the Joensen Guy can squeeze much more power outof his pulls setting his catch up this way.
Its a little bit like pro armwrestling technique.

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Re: Nightcrawler's Journey to European Masters Swimming Championships (Slovenia)

Post by nightcrawler on Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:27 am

15.09.2017 - Morning Session 6:30-7:30 - LCM 4000m

100m easy

Set1: 1500m crawl with paddles (21:10, pace:1:25)

100 easy

Set2: 1500m crawl hand drag drill (23:24, pace:1:34)

100m easy

Set3: 10*50m crawl R:5" (total time recoveries included: 7:23)

200 easy


Notes: I woke up with a headache and swam reluctantly, such being the case the pace was not at the level that I desired.

---------------------------------------------------------
SA,
Being ridgit or not depends on your anatomical features, if you have short forearms and dont have enough armpit flexbility, then you cant embrace the water properly like the above swimmer, these deficiencies automaticaly route you to find another solution for your anatomy.

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Re: Nightcrawler's Journey to European Masters Swimming Championships (Slovenia)

Post by nightcrawler on Fri Sep 15, 2017 3:55 pm

15.09.2017 - Lunch Time Session - 1000m time trial
400: 5:06
800: 10:11
-----------
1000 total time: 12:43 (pace:1:16.5)

Note: NO COMMENT Smile

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Re: Nightcrawler's Journey to European Masters Swimming Championships (Slovenia)

Post by s.sciame on Sat Sep 16, 2017 11:04 am

Wow, that's really a breakthrough! Also the splits were super even, like if you had a tempo trainer inside. What about SPL and estimated stroke rate?

Salvo

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Re: Nightcrawler's Journey to European Masters Swimming Championships (Slovenia)

Post by nightcrawler on Sat Sep 16, 2017 5:03 pm

Thanks Salvo, doing my best to improve a bit Smile

The technique i learned from Italian swimmers in Budapest provided improvement in my sustainable pace:

With drag suit, in 25m pool i can sustain 1:16-1:17 freestyle pace upto 1500m, in 50m pool this is becoming 1:19-1:20, quite good for a master amateur swimmer who hasnt got talent like me.

I dont analyze my stroke rates and SPLs, gave up using Tempo Trainer which is breaking my improvement.

Today i made a demonstration of my new technique and sustainable 1:16 pace with drag suit in 25m pool. You may have a look at the footage and i can happiliy hear your comments, 4 eyes better than the 2 eyes:
https://youtu.be/Ouw_wfRIs3Q

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Re: Nightcrawler's Journey to European Masters Swimming Championships (Slovenia)

Post by SA on Sun Sep 17, 2017 12:01 am

your kinetic energy in the recovery is much more focussed on throwing the arm forward and dropping it in further forward. its more about getting the arm furhter upfront over the water.
The arm used to shoot up loosing focus from the heavy rear push with a wobble going forward again.
Now its moving forward more in one continuous movement.
The energy of the arm at the front in dropping it in and transition to catch is more fluient also.
Less reach-wait-rip through the water. Looking pretty good from the front where you see the arm transition to catch under water. smoother holding traction with the water almost all the time.
i was surprised to see you recover so much over the top instead of sideways. almust like Scott Tucker.
Must stretch the shoulder  over time if you repeat this all the time.
The whole package is starting to look pretty impressive if I may say.

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Re: Nightcrawler's Journey to European Masters Swimming Championships (Slovenia)

Post by nightcrawler on Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:28 am

Thanks for your precious comments SA, i m also feeling pretty more efficient in the water.

16.09.2017 - Morning Session 6:30-7:30 - LCM 3000m

100m easy

Set1: 1000m crawl with paddles (13:41 pace:1:22)

100 easy

Set2: 1000m crawl hand drag drill (15:23, pace:1:32)

100m easy

Set3: 10*50m crawl R:5" (total time recoveries included: 7:14)

200 easy

Due to lack of time, did shorter sets than usual, happy with the results, i m wearing drag suit in 50m pool, in any case results pretty good for me.

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Re: Nightcrawler's Journey to European Masters Swimming Championships (Slovenia)

Post by SA on Sun Sep 17, 2017 1:04 pm

Another fast swimmer in the pool. He was doing a warmup for his race this afternoon.
started swimming from age 7 from original swimmer to triathlete. sprint distance3 750 m swim.
he said he did it in 8 minutes. was among the fastest out of the water he said.
His stroke was fluent and strong. very much like mr smooth. 15 -17 strokes/25 m.
Avarage build and height. no freak of nature.
All the fast swimmers have the same shoulder movement, reaching over a fence with the shoulder and upperarm.
its like a frontwheel driven car where the frontaxle is moved 10 cm further upfront relative to the original car.
good for balance obviously, and also good for power. slow swimmer may reach with the arm, but not with the shoulder through the whole trunk.
and.... he had the typical slapping sound on arm entry! Classic relaxed upperarm/hand recovery.

I suspect you will move back to a more relaxed upperarm/hand entry too, but keep the straight arm driven foundation from the rest of the body until the elbow.

now i understand why there are suddenly so much energetic swimmers in the pool
http://rotterdam.triathlon.org/

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Re: Nightcrawler's Journey to European Masters Swimming Championships (Slovenia)

Post by nightcrawler on Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:38 pm

17.09.2017 - Morning Session 12:30-13:30 - LCM 3000m

Set1: 1500m crawl hand drag drill (21:17, pace:1:25)

Set2: 20x100m crawl with paddles int:1:30 (avg:1:13, worst:1:15, best:1:09)

200 easy

Notes: Today ot was a day that i thought that i shouldnt swim, i was reluctant and sleepless. I went to the pool for just doing drills but after seeing the 1:25 pace in the drill set i decided to swim a challenging 20*100m with sub 1:15 pace, I managed all the repetition with 1:13-1:14 paces, the last one i pushed hard and swam 1:09. This is my seasonal best! Smile

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Re: Nightcrawler's Journey to European Masters Swimming Championships (Slovenia)

Post by s.sciame on Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:55 pm

nightcrawler wrote:

Set1: 1500m crawl hand drag drill (21:17, pace:1:25)


From above water your stroke now looks similar to Shelly Ripple here (which is one of my favourites by the way):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb1Supmb2TQ&t=105s

We already talked about the benefits of a straight arm recovery. Anyway this is the ice on the cake and since you were able to hold 1:25 for 1500 LCM with hand drag drill (from 1:32 to 1:25 in few days) you must be doing something really good with your underwater pull. Perhaps this is the result of a lot of 1500's and 2000's with hand paddles to develop power I suppose. By the way, don't know if that's a coincidence but it seems your major improvements began when you quit your typical usrpt programme (with a lot of 50's on short rest) in favour of sessions like 1500 with hand paddles + 1500 hand drag drill.
Way to go!

Salvo

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Re: Nightcrawler's Journey to European Masters Swimming Championships (Slovenia)

Post by nightcrawler on Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:44 pm

Salvo,
The diagnosis that major improvements began to happen as a result of non-stop training with no days off is exactly what i also realize. But also my new technique made a big difference, here below there are my slow motion demonstrations:
https://youtu.be/eH5ciW4wt3c
https://youtu.be/xffOuoLlekQ

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Re: Nightcrawler's Journey to European Masters Swimming Championships (Slovenia)

Post by nightcrawler on Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:21 am

18.09.2017 - Monday - Morning Session 6:30-7:30 - LCM 4000m

100m easy

Set1: 1500m crawl with paddles (20:55, pace:1:24)

100 easy

Set2: 1500m crawl hand drag drill (23:28, pace:1:34)

100m easy

Set3: 10*50m crawl R:5" (total time recoveries included: 7:24)

200 easy


Notes: Started the first day of the week by not pushing so hard, also there was a bit pain in my left shoulder after yesterday's hard session.

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Re: Nightcrawler's Journey to European Masters Swimming Championships (Slovenia)

Post by nightcrawler on Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:35 am

19.09.2017 - Morning Session - LCM 4000m

100m easy

Set1: 1500m crawl with paddles (20:34, pace:1:22) 

100 easy

Set2: 1500m crawl hand drag drill (23:18, pace:1:33) 

100m easy

Set3: 10x50m crawl R:5" - 400 race pace (recoveries included total time: 7:17)

200 easy

Not: Better than yesterday, I already have completed my recovery period after Sunday's tough session.

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Re: Nightcrawler's Journey to European Masters Swimming Championships (Slovenia)

Post by nightcrawler on Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:54 am

s.sciame wrote:
nightcrawler wrote:

Set1: 1500m crawl hand drag drill (21:17, pace:1:25)


From above water your stroke now looks similar to Shelly Ripple here (which is one of my favourites by the way):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb1Supmb2TQ&t=105s

We already talked about the benefits of a straight arm recovery. Anyway this is the ice on the cake and since you were able to hold 1:25 for 1500 LCM with hand drag drill (from 1:32 to 1:25 in few days) you must be doing something really good with your underwater pull. Perhaps this is the result of a lot of 1500's and 2000's with hand paddles to develop power I suppose. By the way, don't know if that's a coincidence but it seems your major improvements began when you quit your typical usrpt programme (with a lot of 50's on short rest) in favour of sessions like 1500 with hand paddles + 1500 hand drag drill.
Way to go!

Salvo

I have to mention some important points after Salvo's simple but accurate analysis:

- Swimming is not a rocket science, trying to find something as a special technique(or lets say clue) is just wasting time which we have been doing it for a long time, sad but true, we have to admit this!
- We must never forget that (REAL)hard work always pays off.
- As a hard work no need to write down a distributed plan, just developing a template which suits our goals (i.e my workout template/routine for 3K) and trying to improve the times within this template will make us stronger and being stronger will help us to find the proper technique that suits ourself.
- Dont focus only on the technique, it will be a loss of time. Because power rules the technique, try to improve the power by doing tough sets at the end of the session when you are already exhausted (i.e 10x50m with 400m race pace and with tight recoveries). Note that if our race target pace is 1:20/100m, we have to reach this by achieving 1:16 pace in the workout sessions. Training session should be better, powerful and faster than the race.
- Remember that every training session must be the copy of(or better than) the race, so try to swim with the target event's race pace in each session. It is hard at the outset but soon we are getting used to it.
- No matter the plan is or no matter what you swim during the sessions, but how you swim! What is your pace, to what extend do you force yourself? We must be aware of this: the tougher the conditions the more the reaction of the body.
- Dont afraid to swim more. In fact, swim more when you feel exhausted and reluctant, if you can break this weakest chain, you will also break your plauteau, otherwise it will take years, decades to improve.
- It will be amazing but, with this sense in every session i am finding out(learning) something new, do a session that will make your body learn something new in each session.

Good luck to all of us.

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Re: Nightcrawler's Journey to European Masters Swimming Championships (Slovenia)

Post by nightcrawler on Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:21 am

20.09.2017 - Morning Session - LCM 4000m

100m easy

Set1: 1500m crawl with paddles (20:31, pace:1:22) 

100 easy

Set2: 1500m crawl hand drag drill (22:58, pace:1:32) 

100m easy

Set3: 10x50m crawl R:5" - 400 race pace (recoveries included total time: 7:14)

200 easy

Not: A few seconds sneaky improvement in comparison to yesterday Smile

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Re: Nightcrawler's Journey to European Masters Swimming Championships (Slovenia)

Post by nightcrawler on Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:32 pm

20.09.2017 - Lunch Time Session - SCM 1200m
I did some tests with moderate pace:
400m free with drag suit (5:37)
400m free with drag suit and with hand paddles (5:29)
400m free with drag suit with more concentration (5:31)

Notes: I was feeling quite exhausted and reluctant bu my friend Tolga insisted on going to the pool for a small session.
As a result With paddles my SPL is 2 strokes decreasing but the strokes per minute also decreases. Without paddles I can increase the strokes per minute easier in comparison to using paddles. On 4k morning session my moderate pace in 25m pool with drag suit is around 1:23, quite satisfactory for me.

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Re: Nightcrawler's Journey to European Masters Swimming Championships (Slovenia)

Post by nightcrawler on Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:20 am

21.09.2017 - Morning Session - LCM 4000m

100m easy

Set1: 1500m crawl with paddles (20:09, pace:1:21) 

100 easy

Set2: 1500m crawl hand drag drill (22:42, pace:1:31) 

100m easy

Set3: 10x50m crawl R:5" - 400 race pace (recoveries included total time: 7:12)

200 easy

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Re: Nightcrawler's Journey to European Masters Swimming Championships (Slovenia)

Post by nightcrawler on Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:10 am

21.09.2017 - Morning Session - LCM 4000m

100m easy

Set1: 1500m crawl with paddles (20:22, pace:1:21)

100 easy

Set2: 1500m crawl hand drag drill (22:56, pace:1:32)

100m easy

Set3: 10x50m crawl R:5" - 400 race pace (recoveries included total time: 7:14)

200 easy

Notes: The process itself is feeding the fire, i am feeling that I m on the right way, I am feeling less fatigue each day during the workout.

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Re: Nightcrawler's Journey to European Masters Swimming Championships (Slovenia)

Post by nightcrawler on Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:19 pm

23.09.2017 - Morning Session - LCM 4000m

100m easy

Set1: 1500m crawl with paddles (20:33, pace:1:22) 

100 easy

Set2: 1500m crawl hand drag drill (22:41, pace:1:31) 

100m easy

Set3: 10x50m crawl R:5" - 400 race pace (recoveries included total time: 7:09)

200 easy


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