Reverse Catchup Drill

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Reverse Catchup Drill

Post by cottmiler on Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:22 am

This is a useful drill which sorts out how good is your arm action under water.

I know Bopov would benefit from learning to do this one.

Any feedback B?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP9ll7u05U8

Lara Jackson set the USA 50 m record in 2008.

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Re: Reverse Catchup Drill

Post by Sprinter on Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:14 am

In the video it is said that this would be about the back part of your stroke.
Fine, that a non-trivial aspect.

But how would this exercise help to improve anything? You do whatever you do -- and no difference.

As with mostly all of these exercises, I consider them useless. For the elite swimmers, it's some fun to kill time in the pool (and they have much of that). They can do them, but whether they gain anything is doubtful (see USRPT -- zero evidence for any of these drills). The others often can't do them properly, and then there is a good chance of doing harm. Say for the case at hand, you have some idea on how the final phase, sometimes called the "push phase" should be -- whatever that idea is, you will try to practise it like that. You idea might be flawed (in general, or just for yourself). Then your perception of what you are doing in that exercise has also a good chance of being flawed. So likely there is some random action. As with such actions, you do it some time, and then you become "more efficient" with it. So you think you improved something. While in the best case, you just wasted time, in the usual case you just ingrained your flaws, and in the worst case you created new problems.

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Re: Reverse Catchup Drill

Post by cottmiler on Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:40 am

There is an interesting post on swimmingforum.co.uk entitled “Coaching programmes are mostly useless” under General which may echo your thoughts.

When I observe my other lane sharers in a social swimming pool, they all work very hard, thrashing legs which are about 600mm below the surface.

They comment how my body line lies much more horizontal and near the surface and I admit that I don,t work very hard at all. I seek the Total Immersion goal of effortless swimming and it,s only through the myriad of drills that it can happen for me.

On another note, look how nightcrawler has improved and modified his stroke through drill work. See his instagram page.

After swimming I go on to play a couple of hours of tennis using the energy I saved in the pool.

I agree that the delicate body balance developed in the pool is forgotten in the ocean and a different approach is needed.




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Re: Reverse Catchup Drill

Post by Don Wright on Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:04 am

Had a chuckle when I saw the topic title referred to it as a reverse backup drill,   For me before I played the clip, it conjured up a picture of a swimmer moving backwards - with each UW arm stroke, starting from the hip, and pulling backwards to the front - quite ridiculous! Laughing

I agree with "Sprinter"  - Think Bob Bowman said that some drills can actually harm proper stroke action.  As with most such drills, they require decent propulsion from the flutter kick action - so that's good practice in itself. Thought there wasn't much difference between the demo-ed action, and just stroking with one arm while the other was held outstretched to preserve the body line, then maybe alternating the pulling arms.

cottmiler wrote:When I observe my other lane sharers in a social swimming pool, they all work very hard, thrashing legs which are about 600mm below the surface.

That's very sad - Isn't 60cm flutter over-deep kicking for FS-ers about as bad as the oft quoted in-efficient breast-strokers swimming with their bodies inclined at some 45 degrees to the surface? Maybe they should try buoyancy shorts to help get those legs up, nearer the surface, or better still, try "pressing the buoy" (momentarily nodding the head down below the level of an entering/extending arm) to get a similar benefit.  That does send a slight upward impulse along the back and draws the legs up nearer the surface - and does not make inhalation any more difficult because the buoyant reaction of pressing the head/shoulders down causes the head to bob up a bit.  The only negative aspect of this "pressing the buoy" business is that it makes the stroke progress less smooth i.e. not all at the same level - there is a bit of undulation that creeps in, but this may in IMO be a good thing, augmenting propulsion forwards.

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Re: Reverse Catchup Drill

Post by Bopov on Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:49 pm

RE:REVERSE CATCHUP DRILL
I have just seen "Cottmilers"post and have yet to try this drill.(Hopefully tomorrow)

On a general point regarding drills,I have found the more challenging ones to be extremely helpful PROVIDED they are done initially under supervision.This requires the instructor to view the swimmer both above and below the water to establish the correct execution.
I found the "Unco" drill to be so different from other drills that without supervision I would have struggled to continue and probably abandoned it.
I would point to professional golf tour players who can all play superb golf but who regularly have individual coaching to ensure that what they "Think" they are doing is in fact correct.

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Re: Reverse Catchup Drill

Post by cottmiler on Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:46 pm

Nice to hear from you B!

This drill is really Unco but using alternate arms.

Between each arm the legs kick the body over onto the other side so that shoulder comes out of the water ready to recover upside.

Lara can use big 6 beat kicking to do the body oscillation.

In my case I use a 2 beat kick action which I think might be harder and need more accurate body balance and leg/arm coordination.

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Re: Reverse Catchup Drill

Post by Sprinter on Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:52 pm

[quote="cottmiler"]There is an interesting post on swimmingforum.co.uk entitled “Coaching programmes are mostly useless” under General which may echo your thoughts.
[/quote]

This is actually rather different from my thought:
1. This is mostly about kids (which have very different problems than adults), and mostly about the self-selected best of them (those which survive the bad coaching). I don't think it's very relevant whether this or that method makes them a bit faster or not. What I consider a crime, at least according to my observations in the UK, is the total neglect of all the other young swimmers (which then won't become swimmers).
2. Those other children would absolutely need coaching, just to learn how to swim. But that seems badly done: when I watch school lessons, then it's really horrible, nobody is shown anything in the water, nobody is touched (which for some children is absolutely essential to get body-feeling), they all waste their times with silly technical exercises, all done awful.
3. I am not against coaching, but against the over-use of technical exercises. The main thing is the swimming, which can be assisted, and where one can have various focus points. Special exercises only in a very restricted setting, for some time only.

[quote="cottmiler"]
When I observe my other lane sharers in a social swimming pool, they all work very hard,
[/quote]
That's very good, isn't it?

There is the great joy of movement. People nowadays seem to allow that only with dance, which has a high social status, but otherwise "movement is bad". The gentleman/lady doesn't splash.

[quote="cottmiler"]
thrashing legs which are about 600mm below the surface.
[/quote]
For the typical slow speeds, that doesn't matter so much.
And much better than not to move the legs -- most these people swim for the health, not for a beauty contest.

[quote="cottmiler"]
They comment how my body line lies much more horizontal and near the surface
[/quote]
sure, that's better if you swim for speed (many don't do that)

[quote="cottmiler"]
and I admit that I don,t work very hard at all.
[/quote]
Don't you know the joy of working hard? The joy of fast swimming?
The heart pumping, all flowing.

[quote="cottmiler"]
I seek the Total Immersion goal of effortless swimming
[/qoute}
There is no "effortless" swimming, and without effort no speed.

[quote="cottmiler"]
and it's only through the myriad of drills that it can happen for me.
[/quote]
But aren't you there yet, finally???
There is the danger of the means becoming a fetish.

[quote="cottmiler"]
On another note, look how nightcrawler has improved and modified his stroke through drill work.  See his instagram page.
[/quote]
Once you can swim fast and well, it's a very different game. Only then you have the control.

[quote="cottmiler"]
After swimming I go on to play a couple of hours of tennis using the energy I saved in the pool.
[/quote]
So you don't like swimming?
Spending more energy is good. Those who "thrash their legs" won't be more tired than you, since the body becomes used to it.
"Use it or loose it" -- every "saving" comes back to you and might hurt you.

Be generous!

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Re: Reverse Catchup Drill

Post by cottmiler on Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:05 am

It,s important to breathe to the opposite side of the stroking arm.

My friend Silvercap tried this drill today and liked it. He has a strong 6 beat leg kick which helps.

The problem was that because he normally only breathes one side, he was not getting the full benefit of the drill.

As a triathlete he needs to master left side breathing.

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