Swimming in a 7m pool

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Swimming in a 7m pool

Post by Sprinter on Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:41 pm

For four days I was in a hotel with a 7m pool (measured precisely), fortunately rectangular form and deep enough, reasonable visibility.

So I concentrated on sprint-kicking, 7m and 14m (no breathing), and that seemed really useful.
More precisely I did:
(a) just pushing off the wall, gliding to the other end, 7m
(b) (torpedo-)kicking off the wall, 7m
(c) same as (b), with additional tumble-turn and back (all without breathing), 14m
(d) last day I added the arms, 14m (also without breathing).
I used the tempo-trainer with 0.6s/beep for timing (kicking), synchronising with the stroke for (d).

The times were around
(a) 3.2s - 3.7s: so 2m/s (average) are achievable just by pushing off and gliding, for 7m.
(b) 2.8s - 3.3s: not so easy to add speed; one has to wait until at least 1/3 of the time is over, perhaps nearly 1/2.
    Easiest to kick completely submersed, much more difficult to do it close to the surface: it seems the additional
    resistance at the surface can be avoided, but it is easily created, and one has to be very "precise".
(c) 8.4s - 9.5s: quite difficult, to make an effective turn. For kicking it is easiest to do all below water, as in (b), but that
   does not work with the turn, so one has to come up. Then the turn (remember there is no arm-pull) is difficult to do
   efficiently. Key to hit the wall quite high, and NOT to go deep. I would guess that dolphin-kicks for late starters are just
   jokes (if you like them, that's a different story, I just consider speed here), so do not waste any time with them. It is also
   very hard to do anything on your back, and for the full stroke the turning is needed anyway, so rotation onto the stomach was
   done, and that definitely absorbs a lot of speed. The 8.4s I could only realise very rarely, 9.0s much more common. So 3s loss
   over the 2*3s=6s which could be done by kicking one distance (endurance doesn't play a role here, I could do 2 * 3s with kicking,
   without rest, but stopping, and make a complete wall-start in both directions). Definitely the second 7m were 2s slower.
(d) Reliably ~ 6.5s. Key here is to use the arms soon on the second length. Even on the first length speed can be added with 2-3
    strokes before the turn (so I did the 7m including the turn now in 3s), but very essential for the second length.

My feeling was that this was great for really feeling the water. Swimming 2m/s or faster seems a very good test setting to feel
- the mistakes with your head
- starting to kick too early (first length) or too late (second length)
- the feet too high out of the water
- body-position not arrow-like enough
- not using your full long leg
- not adding the complete leg-snap at the end.

If I would have stayed longer I would have started to do 3 lengths at a time. Unfortunately I got some form of food poisoning, so that stopped
"life as we know it" for a few days Evil or Very Mad Today in another hotel pool, this time 25m, I did some activity for the first time. Still very weak (just
taking a few stairs feels hard, have to make a break), but the kicking nevertheless felt awesome. For the first time I had this complete feeling,
that I was consistently kicking through, with good thrust. Couldn't swim hard, but the few 25m with only-kicking (and the snorkel) I did were right away
24s-25s, for which normally I must work quite a number of lengths. And they felt quite easy --- sure, something has to be done Cool , but it felt
natural and straightforward. And sure, at the end I had to take a rest for quite some time, but that should be due to my current weakness (where
I also don't want to take risks). Swimming full stroke I had a good speed also with modest pulling (but using for now only my lowest stroke rate,
0.8s/stroke).

So it adds to my growing conviction that the greatest enemy of the late starter is slow swimming. The slower you swim, the less you feel the water,
the more you swim in your own "filter bubble".

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Re: Swimming in a 7m pool

Post by nightcrawler on Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:16 am

Sprinter wrote:
So it adds to my growing conviction that the greatest enemy of the late starter is slow swimming. The slower you swim, the less you feel the water,
the more you swim in your own "filter bubble".

I could have never understood why they have been constructing freaky-pools! Anyway, you found out a way to benefit, that is really cool, I used to swim by tieing myself up to the edge of the 15m pool and was doing resistance workouts, with and withoit paddles, it was good for developing power and stamina also focusing on keeping the legs higher in the water...

The subject matter that you deduced(that i quoted above) from your workout session is very important and exactly true, that is why I have given up doing slow drills and swim sets above the race pace.

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Re: Swimming in a 7m pool

Post by SA on Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:28 pm

I also think the enemy of the beginner or late starter is doing too much. (while not moving forward much)Everytime there coming new people to the pool, and god, what are they cruching and kicking through the water. they are making so much movements that are simply not effective for moving you forward.
That way you have no chance to feel the water also. There is too much going on at the same time. You just feel resistance from moving water around.
Let them focus on connection there body with one bodypart at a time. one arm, one leg. Get the most of one limb and see how that limb effects your balance, propulsion . alignment etc

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Re: Swimming in a 7m pool

Post by Sprinter on Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:34 pm

[quote="SA"]I also think the enemy of the beginner or late starter is doing too much. (while not moving forward much)
[/quote]

But I think doing too little is even worse.

[quote="SA"]
Everytime there coming new people to the pool, and god, what are they crunching and kicking through the water. they are making so much movements that are simply not effective for moving you forward.
[/quote]
If it's just for fitness, then this may be fine.
I see a lot of over 60's in our pool, good effort every day, very bad technique -- but the bad technique might actually be safer! Once you start doing extreme things, I think the danger especially for the shoulder increases.

Here at the edge of the void most males over 60 are sturdy, and don't think much (which might be better for their health).
Only one guy (of the older regulars) got that bug, the believe in some magic power. Accordingly it takes a lot of rest. But so well ...

[quote="SA"]
That way you have no chance to feel the water also. There is too much going on at the same time. You just feel resistance from moving water around.
[/quote]
However if you are too slow, then there is just nothing to feel!
You need to get into a good speed-range, and this won't happen by magic.


[quote="SA"]
Let them focus on connection there body with one bodypart at a time. one arm, one leg. Get the most of one limb and see how that limb effects your balance, propulsion . alignment etc[/quote]

At the very beginning, sure, but I believe quickly a NATURAL relation to the water is needed, which comes from yourself (not some video you have seen somewhere, or some slogans your heard from somebody). And that should include a lot of hard work. That whole balance-thing I believe  you can not approach AT ALL with slow swimming. The human is not a programmable robot. Actually I think that the MYTH OF THE PROGRAMMABLE ROBOT is highly prevalent, and very destructive. Every swimmer needs to really feel the power applied by the swimming, and the many aspects of drag. In an individual way. Nothing can be learned here from slow and/or incomplete swimming. Only if there are serious faults, then as some form of technical exercise one should do such exercises. Otherwise I believe they are not only useless, but destructive -- one starts believing, that such slow swimming leads somewhere.

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Re: Swimming in a 7m pool

Post by Don Wright on Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:38 am

Sprinter wrote:
...Here at the edge of the void most males over 60 are sturdy [Whadya mean - WHAT void - there aint a cliff-edge after 60 - hopefully!  Smile ], and don't think much (which might be better for their health).

Only one guy (of the older regulars) got that bug, the believe in some magic power. Accordingly it takes a lot of rest[True! - I got out of breath just doing a 10 minute walk yesterday morning - and it was only slightly uphill (*)]. But so well ...

However if you are too slow, then there is just nothing to feel!
You need to get into a good speed-range, and this won't happen by magic.


... Nothing can be learned here from slow and/or incomplete swimming. Only if there are serious faults, then as some form of technical exercise one should do such exercises. Otherwise I believe they are not only useless, but destructive - [Like frustration from inability to successfully move into a "higher gear"?! ] - one starts believing, that such slow swimming leads somewhere.


[/quote]

* Think there comes a time, when one has to recognize one's increasing limitations - and just enjoy what one can do, albeit slowly or with faults one can't seem to eradicate.  Whatever we do in the water, it's all good exercise and beneficial for the health!

I know "Sprinter" patiently (and sadly, fruitlessly!) advised me in the past, to help me swim FS like most bods - able to do length after length without needing a rest to allow the breathing/heart rate to get back to an acceptable level, for continuation.  Not that my HR went that high, it was just the ticker seemingly pounding vigorously against the ribs. (At 82 after 5 CABGs, I am wary of pushing myself too far.)  As a result of a cardiac scare earlier this year, the medicos put gave a various tests which included an "echo cardiogram" test (basically just a fancy ultra-sound scan) .  The console operator asked me if I would like to hear the noise my ticker made - and on assenting to that, heard what sounded like a washing machine in action!  The result (they sent me a copy of the letter from them to my doc) was that there was no stenosis, or narrowing, of my ticker's aortic valve. So that cut out one possible problem!

Think my particular problem is closely associated with a less than satisfactory rate of air input/oxygenation of the blood - and probable "below normal" lung capacity (which is why I have a buoyancy problem, common with most elderly swimmers I think!)  As a relative FS beginner, in my early 20s, I thought nothing of doing the 32 lengths/mile of an open-air lido type pool.  Somewhere over the years, my ability to swim multiple lengths, without periodic rests, degraded.  Maybe it started getting bad when angina problems (spasms of occasional chest pain and breathlessness) arose circa the very early 2000s).  Anyway it's just "history" now - am still enjoying what swimming I can do!


Last edited by Don Wright on Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:02 am; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Swimming in a 7m pool

Post by nightcrawler on Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:11 pm

Too much words...

Just one link to share to clear your minds, I trained in 10m pool for almost a year:
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1u0p3v

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