Using a Pull Buoy and Hip Driven Stroke

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Using a Pull Buoy and Hip Driven Stroke

Post by cottmiler on Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:51 am

I hadn't used a pull buoy for years until a couple of weeks ago in Paul Newsome,s squad and I found it rather interesting. I probably never learnt to use one properly after the initial phase of learning to go in a straight line.

Another thing that Paul had us doing was reducing breaths to every 5 or 7.

These things made me realize that I needed the right arm to enter a bit wider and secondly that the body roll differed whether I was taking a breath or not. Both big errors. Thirdly, I was twisting the body between hips and chest which was another bad thing.

I located this video which reminded me what to do. Ian Thorpe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT1ojfBuFqw

The problem with using too much pull buoy according to PN is the tendency to swim flat and de-training.

I hope to get to Claremont pool later in February.

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Re: Using a Pull Buoy and Hip Driven Stroke

Post by Sprinter on Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:14 pm

It appears more and more to me that the whole "hip thing" has nothing in stock, at any level.

What is the hip-thing supposed to deliver? The human body is not a propeller, and if you get just a centimetre per minute propulsion out of it, then I would guess that would already be a "good achievement".

Overreaching with your arms seems a doubtful and quite dangerous technique (for the shoulders), but even if you want to do that, you could do that without the hips.

"Skating on the side": obviously increases your drag, by increasing your effective diameter.
There is always that stuff about "swim like a fish": are you aware of any fish who flips from side to side??
Mammals swim on the stomach.

Just enough rotation to breath, that seems to be it.

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Re: Using a Pull Buoy and Hip Driven Stroke

Post by Don Wright on Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:33 am

Sprinter wrote:...The human body is not a propeller... [ (  old Don's comments are in red between square brackets!  ) IMO we cannot rotate clock/anti-clockwise fast enough to have much effect as a propellor.  After all, we do have to snatch a breath somewhen!]

Overreaching with your arms seems a doubtful and quite dangerous technique (for the shoulders), but even if you want to do that, you could do that without the hips.  [I went through a phase of doing that yonks ago while swimming FS "flat" - to follow the advice of an expert - OK so you can gain maybe a few inches on each stroke's path length by reaching forward further - but the extra stretching forward does consume energy and detracts from body relaxation, also straight-line swimming, because of the body twisting as the hand tries to stretch further ahead]

"Skating on the side": obviously increases your drag, by increasing your effective diameter. [This "skating on the side" biz was, I think, started yonks ago by Full-Immersion, based on the analogy of the fast old sailing "tea clippers" having a "sharp" keel.  However, I think "Sprinter" is very right about the increase in diameter required to swim with a rapidly clock/anti-clock rotation through a "notional flexible tunnel" of concentric boundary water layers surrounding the body of an F.S. swimmer.  Causing extra disturbance to such concentric layers must add to drag. However as we all know, the final stroke for a competitive swimmer reaching out for the touch pad at the end of a race, is best swum by rolling onto the side, because the lead arm can stretch further ahead.]

There is always that stuff about "swim like a fish": are you aware of any fish who flips from side to side?? Mammals swim on the stomach. [I don't know about the physical attributes of a fishes spinal vertebrae - but am fairly certain they accommodate a greater range of movement than that of humans.  We are more limited to mainly movement up/down relative to the front of the body.]

Just enough rotation to breath, that seems to be it.


One of the little FS variants I still swim, is to deliberately thrust the hip down vigorously as the recovering arm on that side is about to make water entry - while leaving the legs close together free to "do their own thing".  So this is very similar to "cott..."'s  Hip-driven clip. I used to think it was one of my faster FS variants ('cos my awkward inflexible feet/ankles were " kept  out of the picture") - until that is, I was passed by a fairly good FS swimmer (using normal technique!) in the adjacent lane! Doh! Rolling Eyes


cottmiler wrote:Another thing that Paul had us doing was reducing breaths to every 5 or 7.


Eek - Gulp! it is difficult enough for me to manage inhaling on each 3rd arm stroke - extending it to every 4 is just about my limit - you must be very fit indeed to sustain 5 or 7 strokes on a single breath over a decent distance!!! Shocked (Am running out of breath and getting a bit fraught after just 15m without another inhalation!).  I do understand that going further between inhalations, does reduce the stroke disturbance caused by rolling to inhale periodically!

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Re: Using a Pull Buoy and Hip Driven Stroke

Post by cottmiler on Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:48 pm

Thanks both.

Here is Chloe Sutton showing us what to do:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6pLGPqN7aY


My swim today with the pull buoy confirmed that this is a really good way to swim.  She mentions involving the core which ensures the body stays straight and yet allows the hand to "paint a line" along the bottom of the pool.


Last edited by cottmiler on Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:22 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : wrong video put on)

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Re: Using a Pull Buoy and Hip Driven Stroke

Post by Don Wright on Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:34 am

Hi "cott..."

  Have watched your embedded video clip twice now - and then "hung around" to watch what else was "coming up" - after a while there was a 35 minute clip by Auburn Univ swim coach on aspects of FS.  As with others apparently now, he was emphasizing dramatic rotation, to present an almost sideways on rotation, to "cut through the water" instead of "barging" though it "flat".  Think if I recall properly, he said one shouldn't be in a "flat" posture for long during a stroke cycle.

  So it's all a matter of opinion!

  On the business of doing more arm strokes before taking the next inhalation - I do like, when inhaling on every 4th arm stroke, "pressing the buoy" to bring the legs up higher, it seems to make my kicks more "effective". Because, at the start of each kick downbeat (re my wretched stiff ankle/instep problem), my insteps are then momentarily in a more horizontal attitude (at least I think they are! Laughing ) - with each foot breaking the surface for an instant on the kick upbeats.

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