CHALLENGE 50/100 m

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Re: CHALLENGE 50/100 m

Post by Sprinter on Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:01 pm

cottmiler wrote:This Sailboat Drill is the first drill in Dave Scott,s video in the thread "Dave Scott,s Quick Catch".

Though the examples shown have a rather short hesitation; perhaps this is for triathletes, who typically have a weak kick?
As recommended by Ed Sinclair, a standard pattern is 6-1-6, that is, while the arm is posing, do around 6 kicks.

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Re: CHALLENGE 50/100 m

Post by Sprinter on Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:12 pm

Further to that drill: Perhaps indeed it makes sense to distinguish between the two forms:
- "hesitation" really means "hesitation" (short), not a "pause"
- while the "sailboat" really "sets a sail", and thus there is a pause (long).

For me, the Sailboat is right, since one purpose is to practice also the kick, so doing in fact *at least* 6 kicks with the hand waiting in front, short before entry, and absolutely avoiding sinking (this needs the strong kick).

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Re: CHALLENGE 50/100 m

Post by s.sciame on Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:21 pm

Hi all, is anyone in the challenge yet? I'm keeping this thread alive in case you should forget Smile

Yesterday I was reading this "chlorinated" article and I wanted to share it with you, it's a good pre-weekend reading:

https://www.yourswimlog.com/how-fast-are-you-swimming-in-practice/

Did you like Popov's funny story? Beside this, I agree on what the author says about frequently trying full blast efforts. About not "saving up" the great swimming for when you feel in "perfect conditions".

Happy swimming everyone,
Salvo

PS: current progress 33.5, 1:13.5 (from pushoff. From the blocks is work in progress Smile )

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Re: CHALLENGE 50/100 m

Post by Sprinter on Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:29 pm

s.sciame wrote:Hi all, is anyone in the challenge yet? I'm keeping this thread alive in case you should forget Smile

I sense you are feeling pretty strong Cool

s.sciame wrote:
Yesterday I was reading this "chlorinated" article and I wanted to share it with you, it's a good pre-weekend reading:

https://www.yourswimlog.com/how-fast-are-you-swimming-in-practice/

Did you like Popov's funny story? Beside this, I agree on what the author says about frequently trying full blast efforts. About not "saving up" the great swimming for when you feel in "perfect conditions".

In general, I can understand the direction.

But currently that's not appropriate for me. The last two months I had problems in the right shoulder, a long-lasting inflammation. Didn't fully prevent me from swimming, but much reduced, and very reduced intensity.

Hopefully this will have a happy end: now that the overrotation is gone, and I can focus much better on the pull, it became very clear to me that there was an underlying long-standing issue. Such shoulder problems had been going on intermittently for many years (but much better since I do rotator-cuff stuff). And it produced a pull with "holes" in it: to avoid the pain, I either did/do drop the elbow, or turn the hand in, or open my fingers (typically something from everything). Due to the long history, of course some muscles are weakened, others take over. It's really a strange beast, different for both arms (due to different shoulder problems), and also ever-changing. Some problems I remember from my Kung Fu training already 35 years ago, had to do certain evasive movements (especially with the accompanying strength training). These problems explode when going to a really high stroke rate, and the pull becomes extremely inefficient.

I decided to finally fully confront this problem. After every swimming sessions doing 20-30m (in the pool typically) various exercises with elastic bands, really going INTO the pain (whenever I find a place with pain, and there are various, different left and right, go into it, with a reasonable intensity). Seems to work, slowly I am getting better. (Possibly also anti-rheumatic inflammation treatment via Lyprinol helped here --- very soon after I started taking it I had such a very intensive improvement.)

Definitely I have now a better perception of how I avoided the pain in the past, by the various evasive movements. Not so easy to get back the small muscles involved, but I am optimistic. Instrumental here the much reduced rotation -- too much noise otherwise!

A bit strange the reaction of the coaches in retrospective: there was always this strange thing, that I would underperform at some pull-related exercises, and looking at the videos, the evasive movements are now very clear to me. But perhaps other issues overshadowed this (there was always some comment by the coaches, but nobody really confronted the issue). With my last swim clinic the coach again noticed my strangely weak performance for some exercises with the elastic bands, but again didn't fully challenge that, but kind of looked away ("strange thing").

Hopefully until the end of July it really gets much better. Since then I go for two weeks to the
Best Centre
http://www.bestswimcentre.com/sports/masters-2/
in Mallorca, not a camp, but only 1-1 sessions and video analysis: the plan is, finally I understand where I want to go (say, roughly, old-fashioned sprint style), and I know and feel all the components, but they are fleeting and hard to fully integrate -- now this hopefully will be further developed, and then hardened. Just having one coached session every 3-6 months (1-1 session) seems not enough to really do the transition: problems like the shoulder problems pop up, some parts of the stroke degenerate, and you do not really notice that. Hopefully being nearly 2 weeks under supervision makes a difference.

s.sciame wrote:
PS: current progress 33.5, 1:13.5 (from pushoff. From the blocks is work in progress Smile )
HO HO, not too bad for [and now my colloquial English isn't good enough, don't know an appropriate phrase one could use here; searched the Internet for a long time for, say, the big mafia boss confronted by the boss of a rival gang, or the alpha wolf challenged by a young wolf, but couldn't find anything Sad so well, your job to fill in this bracket Very Happy ] (at least there should be very different emoticons, some roaring lions say, more toughness, not just that endless smiling and hand-clapping and whining).

Why don't we have the big final showdown at the European Masters Swimming Championships 2018 ?
http://theswimforum.palstani.com/t80-european-masters-swimming-championships-2018

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Re: CHALLENGE 50/100 m

Post by Sprinter on Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:47 pm

For the final showdown, to create the right mood set see
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuUWq7qGSro
(but our TI adepts might better not watch that!).

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Re: CHALLENGE 50/100 m

Post by s.sciame on Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:56 pm

Sprinter wrote:For the final showdown, to create the right mood set see
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuUWq7qGSro
(but our TI adepts might better not watch that!).

hahaha, hey I left the forum last friday in nearly sleep mode and the day after I found it on fire Very Happy

I hear you on shoulder issues, every now and then it happens to me as well. Fortunately not to the point to have to quit swimming but I have to go easier and/or make technical adaptations. The last time was in the end of April: after a session where I swam with a (too) high elbow catch I started feeling a mild pain on the front of the shoulder and it lasted a lot of time (up until recently). Even now I still have to be careful on that shoulder when I lift weights (my daughter) on a certain way. And yes, high elbow catch combined with over rotation is a killer for shoulders.

About the "final showdown", I was thinking about starting small with some local master meets in the next fall and see if I like them (and get some official times as well). I actually would prefer entering the 800's and 1500's but in my area (Rome) you have only one event per year over these distances (they use to call them "special distances"...). I guess I'll do some 400's and 100's then. The world of master is strongly orientated toward the shortest distances. That's one of the reasons why I recently got some more interest on this 50/100m challenge, though I still see myself as more of a distance/ow guy and I don't even train like a true sprinter (don't like to rest more than 20s at the walls). Another reason is that I got convinced that from a "decent" 50/100 you can build whatever you want - ie show me you can go somewhere then let's decide what to train for. Last but not least, I got sick of hearing that adult beginners cannot get to 30/1:10 Wink

Salvo

PS: you may like this link:

http://www.egswim.com/ne/RatingTime.html

One thing I like of pool swimming is that you can easily compare yourself to anybody all over the world remotely

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Re: CHALLENGE 50/100 m

Post by Sprinter on Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:02 am

s.sciame wrote:
I hear you on shoulder issues, every now and then it happens to me as well. Fortunately not to the point to have to quit swimming but I have to go easier and/or make technical adaptations. The last time was in the end of April: after a session where I swam with a (too) high elbow catch I started feeling a mild pain on the front of the shoulder and it lasted a lot of time (up until recently). Even now I still have to be careful on that shoulder when I lift weights (my daughter) on a certain way. And yes, high elbow catch combined with over rotation is a killer for shoulders.

It seems actually a long-going issue for me, and hopefully with much more rigorous exercises, a strong improvement is possible.
In this sense, I take the recent outbreak as a chance (wake-up call), to finally address this issue. (By the way, I don't worry about bringing the elbow close to the surface -- I don't believe in it in general, and especially for masters it seems inappropriate.)

An interesting aspect here: The recent crisis affected, on the right side, the beginning and the finish of the pull. The problems with the beginning, where in reply to the pain/weakness the shoulder drops, is a long-standing one. Don't know about the finish. Perhaps this comes from the specific inflammation of the tendon.
Correspondingly to the finishing-problems, I did only light triceps training in recent time. Last Friday it felt better, and in my session with my personal-fitness-coach (two hours per week), for the triceps-rope-pulldown I thought to use "the usual weights", 4 sets with 12 reps each -- but for the last set, instead of moving the weight I nearly felt over (what happens when you expect to move something but it doesn't move). Hmm, didn't remember exactly what I used in the past, so well, perhaps I never did that before. Alright, next day at home with my rack, I did triceps-pushdown with the usual weight, not light, but 12 reps not a big problem -- and couldn't do a single one! Aha, wasn't really fully aware of that, though it's natural, in combination with pain and avoiding certain movements, muscles can decay relatively quickly. Now yesterday in the pool, for the pull I felt the "return of finishing phase" on the one hand, and the definite weakness here! Again, somehow I knew that the finishing phase was diminished, but the body gets very quickly used to a new "normal", so that in the last weeks I couldn't "fully understand" (really feel) why I was so slow -- but yesterday I could finally feel that aspect. Hopefully that all returns (and much better than before Twisted Evil ).

So also growing the body-awareness is an important (and interesting) part of swimming. So many old problems, so many new changes (say due to injuries) go (nearly) unnoticed, Though there seems to be always some trace, but at least for me, when I first encounter the problem, I always think "come on, that's nothing". My body seems very cunning in deceiving me! At some point something very funny happened to me: I was swimming, kind of noticed something (don't remember what it was), but my body said "don't worry, that's nothing" -- and then I really kind of stumbled (while swimming!), due to a sudden very clear vision from a scene from the film "Antichrist" of Lars von Trier, where she, when confronted about a past (devilish) wrongdoing regarding her son, answers in a very very characteristic soothing way, something like "oooohh, didn't notice thaaat" -- and I noticed that exactly in this way my body was speaking to me!! HAH, I told my body, NOT WITH ME!! And I found that altogether quite hilarious.

Another area of very weak body awareness is in my legs. Likely that had practical advantages: they just did their stuff in the past, nothing special, weren't challenged much, and then at least they didn't cause much problems. Last week I was also very slow with my kicking (around 20% slower than usual), and couldn't figure out what's going on. A had then a massage, where I was told that my left leg was very tight -- and the next day speed was back to the usual level. I definitely felt the good feeling of a "flowing kick" when speed was back, mostly with the up-kick -- but for the legs on their own, say you are sitting, I didn't feel anything (before and after).

s.sciame wrote:
About the "final showdown", I was thinking about starting small with some local master meets in the next fall and see if I like them (and get some official times as well).
I am relatively sure that I won't like it: you have basically no warm-up! But that doesn't matter to me: I like travelling, I like hotels, I like to have something specific to do, and I like the preparations.

s.sciame wrote:
I actually would prefer entering the 800's and 1500's but in my area (Rome) you have only one event per year over these distances (they use to call them "special distances"...). I guess I'll do some 400's and 100's then. The world of master is strongly orientated toward the shortest distances.
Organisation of the longer distances is so much harder! You need constant supervision of every swimmer, and for 1500m that means watching every swimmer for 30 min (or longer!). And all of that work is done by unpaid (or lowly paid) volunteers. The short distances are so much easier.

s.sciame wrote:
That's one of the reasons why I recently got some more interest on this 50/100m challenge, though I still see myself as more of a distance/ow guy and I don't even train like a true sprinter (don't like to rest more than 20s at the walls).
Coaches say that you need the courage for longer rests (with the shorter rests you never go all out).
Though currently, due to all these problems, I don't go all out myself (except for the legs!).

s.sciame wrote:
Another reason is that I got convinced that from a "decent" 50/100 you can build whatever you want
Perhaps that's especially true for guys like us, late starters -- the technical problems are best attacked with fast swimming.

s.sciame wrote:
PS: you may like this link:
http://www.egswim.com/ne/RatingTime.html
One thing I like of pool swimming is that you can easily compare yourself to anybody all over the world remotely
Interesting, thanks.

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Re: CHALLENGE 50/100 m

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