How to be an Elite swimmer?

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How to be an Elite swimmer?

Post by nightcrawler on Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:24 am

Dear My Swim Pals,
Everybody wants pace improvement and be a better swimmer. With this intention, I wanted to create this topic, hope this will show us the way...

A yound elite triathlete or a young elite swimmer (not an olympian or a world class swimmer, just a good young club swimmer) can/should do the below set easily:
At least 10x100m freestyle, interval:01:15 with 00:58 average (at 25m pool).
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It may seem impossible for most of us, especially if we are master swimmers over 25 years of age!

Now, let's consider this for the "Elite Master Swimmer" then.
Here below the FINA's qualifying times:
http://www.fina.org/sites/default/files/general/budapest2017_masters_qualtime.pdf

For a elite master swimmer I m taking the best times which is age 25 classment:


In order to set up an average training plan I am taking 400m (middle distance) times, for women it is 5:28 and for men it is 4:52. These are just the qualifying times, not the best of course.

This means that if we join the workout session of any master swim club on earth with 4:52(for men) and 5:28(for women), they will surely will rescpect us and we can be one of the leading swimmers during the session.

According to this criteria the elite masters' targets set should be:
FOR WOMEN: At least 10x100m freestyle, interval:01:40 with 01:22 average (at 25m pool).
FOR MEN: At least 10x100m freestyle, interval:01:30 with 01:13 average (at 25m pool).


Trying the below interval sets with the above targets going to be a step for us on the way to being "Elite Master Swimmers":

FOR MEN:
- SET1(100s): 2x100m interval:01:30 with sub 1:13. If can, try 3x100m, 4x100m, 5x100m,... up to 10x100m increasing the reps by 1. If cannot,start with the below set:
- SET2(50s): 4x50m interval:00:50 with sub 00:36. If can, try 6x50m, 8x50m, 10x50m, ... up to 20x50m increasing the reps by 2. If cannot, start with the below set:
- SET3(25s): 8x25m interval 00:30 with sub 00:18 if can, try 12x25m, 16x25m, 20x24m, up to 40x25m increasing the reps by 4.
--------------------------------------------------------
FOR FEMALE:
- SET1(100s): 2x100m interval:01:40 with sub 1:22. If can, try 3x100m, 4x100m, 5x100m,... up to 10x100m increasing the reps by 1. If cannot, start with the below set:
- SET2(50s): 4x50m interval:00:55 with sub 00:41. If can, try 6x50m, 8x50m, 10x50m, ... up to 20x50m increasing the reps by 2. If cannot, start with the below set:
- SET3(25s): 8x25m interval 00:35 with sub 00:20. if can, try 12x25m, 16x25m, 20x24m, up to 40x25m increasing the reps by 4.
--------------------------------------------------------
If cannot do even any of the first repetitions with target paces, then it means that you have problems in your technique (should better ask a coach for private lessons) or physologic disorders that can hinder your mobility and flexibility (do proper dryland exercises - should better be done by the help of a physotherapist).

PAY ATTENTION THE BELOW WHILE DOING THE SETS:
Follow the inside out principle while doing the sets. In other words, SET2 is a subset of SET1 and SET3 is a subset of SET2. That is to say:
If you had started from SET3, start doing the SET2 after reaching up to 20x25m(half) repetitions of SET3.
If you had started from SET2, start doing the SET1 after reaching up to 10x50m(half) repetitions of SET2.
If you had started from SET1, no need to do SET2 and SET3.
If can achive the first few repetitions but cannot increase the number of repetitions, then add 5 seconds to intervals.

Please share your improvements...

Good luck!


Last edited by nightcrawler on Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:20 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: How to be an Elite swimmer?

Post by s.sciame on Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:39 pm

That's a good challenge! I find it motivating, it also fits with the "challenge 50/100m" thread by the way.

So last week I did one of your power sets at the end of my session:

4x25m on 24.75s at 17.25s (with TT at 80SPM and 20SPL).

Let's call it my baseline. I'll try to stay within 17s the next times, though this is really fast swimming for me (my current best 25m is 15.33s). So I'm starting from the very bottom of SET3: as someone used to say, it's a long way to the top if you wanna rock'n'roll Wink

Thanks NC!
Salvo

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Re: How to be an Elite swimmer?

Post by nightcrawler on Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:29 am

Hi Salvo,
Excellent challange for being a good swimmer, what's important is the first step...
I appreciate you, congragulations! Dont use TempoTrainer during the trials, it will brake you, instead of it try to maintain the same SPL with you do in your slower speed.
NOTE: I edited my above post and moderated the target paces for women and men.

Today morning I did the below challenge:
17.01.2017 - Tuesday(3400m)
16x75m crawl int:75" (avg:57", best:55", Maintained SPL:17 for all)
200 easy
20x50m crawl int:50" (avg:37", best:36", Maintained SPL:17 for all)
200 easy
24x25m crawl int:25" (avg:18", best:17", Maintained SPL:17 for all)

Trials (Maintained SPL:17" for each):
1) 4x25m int:20" (15 - 16 - 17 - 18  Total net time: 01:08)
2) 4x25m int:40" (14 - 15 - 15 - 14)
The 1st trial was harder than the first one!

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Re: How to be an Elite swimmer?

Post by s.sciame on Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:55 am

Always nice and stimulating to see FINA's qualifying times.

Today: 8x25m on :29 at sub 18s (17+). I was able to hold the target stroke count (20SPL) except in the last rep where I hit 21SPL. Really tough set: not sure if I counted well but I guess my heart rate in the end was around 180bpm (which should be nearly the maximum according to my age).
But it was funny as well, I want more of it Smile

Salvo

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Re: How to be an Elite swimmer?

Post by nightcrawler on Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:23 pm

s.sciame wrote:Always nice and stimulating to see FINA's qualifying times.

Today: 8x25m on :29 at sub 18s (17+). I was able to hold the target stroke count (20SPL) except in the last rep where I hit 21SPL. Really tough set: not sure if I counted well but I guess my heart rate in the end was around 180bpm (which should be nearly the maximum according to my age).
But it was funny as well, I want more of it Smile

Salvo

Absolutely having the same feelings right after the session! Very Happy



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Re: How to be an Elite swimmer?

Post by s.sciame on Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:40 pm

eheheh, at least I don't have mustaches Very Happy

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Re: How to be an Elite swimmer?

Post by s.sciame on Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:55 pm

It seems the other forum members are using different strategies to qualify for the FINA Masters World Championships 2017.

Today I was short of time at the end of the session so I did a shorter set at slightly faster pace:

4x25m on :30 at 17s flat. Held 20SPL in all the reps.

With drag trunk: https://nyppagesix.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/borat1.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&strip=all

Salvo

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Re: How to be an Elite swimmer?

Post by SA on Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:27 pm

Google translate from a japanese swimcoach:

Actually, as we explore the root of the trouble of swimming deeper,

Apparently I found that there were two types of causes.


that is···


A type → What about that person's physical abilities itself

B type → that person's physical skill and skill mismatch
(Theory is right, but that you are not right now)



For type A, muscle strength is different on the left and right,

There is a difference between joints in the left and right,

Pelvis is difficult to move back and forth, etc.

It will be related to muscles, joints, skeleton.



The solution, such as muscle balance adjustment and distortion correction,

There is function improvement.

Regarding this field,

The conditioning method has advanced dramatically in recent years,

With personal trainers and conditioners,

It has become possible to improve up to the part which was thrusted considerably.



You also like muscle balance adjustment and skeletal distortion correction

Is not there something I've heard somewhere?



"Yoga" "Pilates" etc. are also very popular recently,

You may think that it comes from this flow.



The problem is type B


Mismatch of physical ability and technology


This is really quite a lot.

For example, when I was fetching my car license.

I just finished driving to finish without falling the curve.

Such a racing driver teaches you

Let's do the fastest technique to run through the hairpin!

Even if it is said, it is champagne starch, is not it?


This is the same thing.

The latest technique of swimming theory introduced in magazines and television.

I want to try this too!

Do not you think?

But it is a bitter speech, but my physical abilities are different.



"Eh! But me, if you're abs, you can do 20 times!"

Is not it?

However, the top swimmers, one digit is different.

Because you can do 200 times. .

in short: Many fiat 500s think they are ferraris


Last edited by SA on Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:19 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: How to be an Elite swimmer?

Post by SA on Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:33 pm

Guys,  how can you do all these reps without being thrown out of the pool because of collapsing into other people all the time??

I always have at least 5 other swimmers circling in my lane, one or 2 of them not going faster than 2 min/100m pace.

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Re: How to be an Elite swimmer?

Post by s.sciame on Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:41 pm

I'm lucky enough to almost always find a free lane early morning, when I usually swim (in the evenings it's a mess, it's impossible to swim). Early morning I have a lane for myself or I split it with another swimmer (one swims always on left side, the other swimmer always on right side). If you are 3 or more per lane it's impossible to do a proper set with exact interval and exact pacing, unless you train together and do the same sets.

One day during Christmas holidays I went to the pool and all the lanes were busy, so I chose the lane with master swimmers and followed their session. We were about 6 in the lane and, though we were coordinated, I found that session pretty useless because of too much pauses and because I actually swam less: for instance on a 10x50m, I actually swam 10x48m because I always had other swimmers stucked at the wall and I couldn't do those last 2 strokes to touch the wall. In a master squad I believe only the lead swimmers fully train. The others follow, draft and swim less yardage in the end.

Salvo

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Re: How to be an Elite swimmer?

Post by Sprinter on Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:33 pm

SA wrote:Guys,  how can you do all these reps without being thrown out of the pool because of collapsing into other people all the time??

If you give up on the, sorry, funny idea of swimming a constant speed for a long time, life becomes much better Very Happy Very Happy

A fast 25m is much easier to do. I don't care if I have to wait a bit longer, or start a bit earlier.
I believe you can get a good workout also without the constancy. I go deliberately for chaos Twisted Evil Go with the flow tongue

I travel quite a lot, and I always do swimming, nearly every day -- and it always possible. (So well, nearly always Mad -- but actually I can't remember when it didn't work out. GREAT if there are problems, then I get aggressive, swim like the Hulk, and get a great workout (this really works).)

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Re: How to be an Elite swimmer?

Post by nightcrawler on Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:54 pm

SA wrote:Guys,  how can you do all these reps without being thrown out of the pool because of collapsing into other people all the time??

I always have at least 5 other swimmers circling in my lane, one or 2 of them not going faster than 2 min/100m pace.

I m swimming alone in the morning at 6:15. nobody at the pool except me.

Today's session:

22.01.2017 - Sunday (7000m, SCM)

Warm up:
200m

Set:
50x100m int.1:40 (avg:1:18, best:1:14, SPL:16)

Recovery:
100m

Kick (wirh kickboard):
800m (16:15)

Pull (with ankle bands):
800m (11:48)

Cool down:
100m

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Re: How to be an Elite swimmer?

Post by s.sciame on Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:08 pm

nightcrawler wrote:

Today's session:

22.01.2017 - Sunday (7000m, SCM)

Warm up:
200m

Set:
50x100m int.1:40 (avg:1:18, best:1:14, SPL:16)

Recovery:
100m

Kick (wirh kickboard):
800m (16:15)

Pull (with ankle bands):
800m (11:48)

Cool down:
100m

Shocked Monster session!

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Re: How to be an Elite swimmer?

Post by nightcrawler on Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:52 pm

Well Salvo,

I have the intention of doing such a set once a week to make the body get used to the tougher conditions/sets than the ones usually I do.

On the other hand, in terms of technical puposes; this is very useful for determining the weaknesses in the stroke and also provides a base aerobic condition for rest of the week.

I have been always in the top 3 general ranking swimmers in the long distance races with a sustainable pace around 1:24/100m. But IMHO an average elite swimmer should swim at least a 5K sub 1:15/100m pace(Total time 01:02:30 for the 5K). I am trying to achive this, getting closer each day, nowadays I can manage sustainable 1:18/100m pace, 3 seconds to decrease, this means at least 2 years hardwork. During the pushoffs and turns I prefer to be tardy, also wearing drag suit while training, my strategy is training by considering the worst case (i.e if I swim with 1:19 average in the trainings this means that in the race at least can hold that pace - one week before the race I am doing stretching, decreasing my distances and increasing the inensity and eat quality meal and a good sleep).

I like dancing so close to the fire Smile

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Re: How to be an Elite swimmer?

Post by s.sciame on Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:51 pm

That definitely makes sense NC, by the way I think a 50x100m with 20' rest is a valid usrpt customization for a 5k race. Are you also going to try a 10x500 before the race?

I also recognize a value in doing an 800m kick set every now and then. Today I tried to devote a session to kicking and I realized that I also miss a lot of endurance on kick, not only speed. I don't think I'd be able to kick continuously for 800m with a kickboard, whatever the pace. That's another common trait of many adults beginners I suppose.

Also noticed you shaved another SPL in your 50x100, another good sign. You really made a breakthrough in the last few months (comparing to when we posted on SS forum), despite doing similar sets and on the same weekly mileage if I get it right. The very new weapon has been the daily dryland training (especially the man makers), right?

Salvo

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Re: How to be an Elite swimmer?

Post by SA on Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:24 pm

The manmakers are really killing.
Even thinking about doing 60 of them ruins my day.( because I will procastinate and find excuses to not do them, feeling guilty afterwards).
But you have to torture the body so that it is so shocked it will adapt to avoid feeling so horrible the next time.
The Brownlee brothers and all those elite triathletes love that feeling. Masochists with an extreme ambition to win. Having some talent also helps offcourse.

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Re: How to be an Elite swimmer?

Post by nightcrawler on Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:07 pm

Hi SA,
Dont consider/think Brownlee brothers, there is only you and your willpower in the water, you are the only one who have to be responsible from yourself.

Manmakers trigger iliopsoas, gluteus, lat, scapula, erector spinae, hamstrings, quadriceps, calves, whole arm muscles. Also is a great way at home to workout cardiovascular system effectively. These all help to feel stronger, confident, comfortable, balanced and sustainable in the water. And the most important thing is it is free, you dont have to pay  tax to Paul or Terry! Smile))

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Re: How to be an Elite swimmer?

Post by s.sciame on Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:56 am

16x25m on :30 at steady 18s today.

This pace is becoming quite repeatable: I could do all the reps at the same SPL, moderate flutter kick and with my favourite breathing pattern (ie every 2 strokes, switching breathing side every length). At the walls I breathed normally (no gasping) at the same rate as when swimming, and at the end of the set my HR was 160bpm which is not higher than it is at the end of a threshold set. The next time I'll try for 20x25m.

According to NC's protocol (see above), once I succeed half SET3 (20x25m sub 18s on :30) I may already start trying SET2, though hitting 36s on the 50's is harder than hitting 18s on the 25's because you have to add the turn.

Salvo

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Re: How to be an Elite swimmer?

Post by nightcrawler on Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:34 pm

lol! santa Basketball bounce affraid Shocked
Well done, BRAVOOO Salvo!

LETS SOFTEN THE PROTOCOL FOR INCORPORATING MORE PARTICIPANTS  Very Happy

_____________________________________________________________________________________________
PROTOCOL FOR BEING AN ELITE MASTER SWIMMER:

FOR WOMEN:
- SET1(100s): Start with 2x100m interval:01:50 with sub 01:26. (as you succeed increase the reps up to 10x100m by 1)
- SET2( 50s): Start with 4 x50m interval:00:60 with sub 00:42. (as you succeed increase the reps up to 20 x50m by 2)
- SET3( 25s): Start with 8 x25m interval 00:35 with sub 00:20. (as you succeed increase the reps up to 40 x25m by 4)


FOR MEN:
- SET1(100s): Start with 2x100m interval:01:40 with sub 01:14. (as you succeed increase the reps up to 10x100m by 1)
- SET2( 50s): Start with 4 x50m interval:00:55 with sub 00:36. (as you succeed increase the reps up to 20 x50m by 2)
- SET3( 25s): Start with 8 x25m interval 00:30 with sub 00:17. (as you succeed increase the reps up to 40 x25m by 4)


PAY ATTENTION THE BELOW WHILE DOING THE SETS:
Follow the inside out principle while doing the sets. In other words, SET2 is a subset of SET1 and SET3 is a subset of SET2. That is to say:
- If you had started from SET3, start doing the SET2 after reaching up to 20x25m(half) repetitions of SET3.
- If you had started from SET2, start doing the SET1 after reaching up to 10x50m(half) repetitions of SET2.
- If you had started from SET1, no need to do SET2 and SET3.
- Hitting the target paces is our main target! If you can achive the first few repetitions but cannot increase the number of repetitions, then just add 5 seconds(not more) to interval periods (ie. as a starting point males can do 100 meters on 1:45 instead of 1:40).


CONCLUSION:
This is a protocol for master(over the age of 25 years) swimmers, for younger swimmers of course the paces wouldl be tougher. After reaching the elite master swimmer level, which is for men 10x100m int:1:40 - 1:14 each  and  for women 10x100m int:1:50 - 1:26 each, men can sustain around 1:20 pace and women will be able to sustain around 1:30 pace in the distances 400m and over.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________


Good luck.


Last edited by nightcrawler on Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:37 pm; edited 2 times in total

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