glide anxiety

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glide anxiety

Post by SA on Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:13 am

Paul is making his point again. what do we think about it?
I see a 10BK kicktastic with a catchupstroke move toward a more normal timing 6BK ish stroke.
Agree with the comments of Eugene S.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB2On3Bi5BM

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Re: glide anxiety

Post by s.sciame on Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:29 pm

Yes, the ramp test is too vague: just swimming 50m, rest a lot, swimming another 50 etc doesn't tell the truth about your optimal and sustainable gear. Plus the young guy is clearly biased because he knows what Paul wants to demonstrate beforehand with this video.

And Paul is simply obsessed by overgliding (once I asked him a comment on Ferry Weertman on the 10k at Rio and he claimed he won because of the kick). He is obsessed by overgliding and some other dogmas just like on TI they are obsessed by shaping the vessel and not building the engine etc.

It seems that at some point these people become slave of their "trademarks" (I mean what they used to profess as evangelists in the past) and also obsessed by their own thoughts and "certainties", to the point they become the parody of themselves.

Salvo

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Re: glide anxiety

Post by SA on Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:26 pm

The horror
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9S2x969sCgY

The solution
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IszOVxk_2G0

Are all problems solved if overgliding is cured?
No, offcourse not :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guLuGzlG4Fk

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Re: glide anxiety

Post by nightcrawler on Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:48 pm

s.sciame wrote:Yes, the ramp test is too vague: just swimming 50m, rest a lot, swimming another 50 etc doesn't tell the truth about your optimal and sustainable gear. Plus the young guy is clearly biased because he knows what Paul wants to demonstrate beforehand with this video.  

And Paul is simply obsessed by overgliding (once I asked him a comment on Ferry Weertman on the 10k at Rio and he claimed he won because of the kick). He is obsessed by overgliding and some other dogmas just like on TI they are obsessed by shaping the vessel and not building the engine etc.

It seems that at some point these people become slave of their "trademarks" (I mean what they used to profess as evangelists in the past) and also obsessed by their own thoughts and "certainties", to the point they become the parody of themselves.

Salvo  


Good observation and diagnosis in both cases (overglideness obsession and trademark - two words: COGNITIVE DISSONANCE), I definitely agree with Salvatore!
I had written the same in SS forum's "Did Ian Thorpe Overgide?" thread 8 months ago before I was fired from there by Paul, in fact it was not not due to my being impolite (everyone can say bullshit, it is not a swear, he is also using slang in some of the videos) but because of his big ego, he couldnt/cant stand criticisations and doesnt know the rules of discussion, if one has a thesis then must be ready for anti-thesis!

In Paul's ramp test there is no indicator in terms of performance levels:
- Fast, according to what? What is the target race distance and according to that distance what is the personal sustainable strokes per minute?
- Fewer strokes according to which distance/event? I can also swim 31" seconds with the same strokes per lap in comparison to my 5K pace(40 seconds) for 50m by kicking more and harder and pulling deeper and faster(with higher strokes per minute). I did it few weeks ago!
- Harder, according what, what is the HR, which race distance's HR is it? (I can swim with average 140 HR 5K and it feels harder than my 180 HR in 200m race). So words like hard/easy are not scientific whilst he(Paul) is talking about science all the time.

- On the other hand it is the biggest mistake comparing the amateur and especially the adult swimmers' stokes with youngster olimpic gold medallists' strokes, who have been training more than 6 hours a day since their puberty and started swimming before they were creeping. For the sake of bonus exemplifying the names of olympians(Ledecky and Thorpe) to adult newbies is really dangerous in terms of health. What if that adult newbie unconsciouly tries to sustain his fastests pace for the distances above 50m,who will care if something related with cardiac happens? If Pauls has already a magic spirit for us why have we been swimming for decades to swim just 1 second faster per 100m?

... I can write lots of related with his trash-full ideas, but will be waste of time.

All the best for all of us.
NC

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Re: glide anxiety

Post by Mike A Yesterday at 10:10 am

SwimSmooth's obsession with overgliders is because it's the key differentiator between them and their rivals, Total Immersion. The problem with any web-based swim coaching is that it can never be a substitute for an experienced coach working with an individual (and developing an approach tailored to that individual's abilities, body type, fitness and goals). The "Swim Types" is an attempt to address this, but it's still a pretty crude tool. A good coach works without dogma and adapts their thinking to the individual.

I've always been something of an 'overglider' myself, but never an extreme one (stroke rate never drops below 60spm - some overgliders are more like 40spm!). I did used to 'stall' and 'kickstart', but am doing that far less now, and have found that a well-time gentle flutter kick can sustain momentum through the slight pause at the front with almost no extra energy cost. It's not a propulsive kick, as such, but seems to prolong the momentum of the arm pull. By contrast, if I concentrate on eliminating the pause at the front, I get no faster and fatigue a lot sooner.

At the end of the day, the clock never lies!
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Re: glide anxiety

Post by Don Wright Yesterday at 7:58 pm

Hi folks!

Mike A wrote:...I've always been something of an 'overglider' myself, but never an extreme one (stroke rate never drops below 60spm - some overgliders are more like 40spm!). I did used to 'stall' and 'kickstart', but am doing that far less now, and have found that a well-time gentle flutter kick can sustain momentum through the slight pause at the front with almost no extra energy cost. It's not a propulsive kick, as such, but seems to prolong the momentum of the arm pull. By contrast, if I concentrate on eliminating the pause at the front, I get no faster and fatigue a lot sooner...

I may appear to be go-ing off-piste for a "mo", but bear with me please!  I found an erudite article a while ago, about most competitive freestyle pool swimmers launch too quickly into doing dolphin waggles, when they push off from the wall.  The article suggested that careful monitoring needed to be made of each swimmers behaviour in that respect.  The article contained graphs showing the the difference in time between a selected swimmer's action - and what the effect might be if the swimmer delayed "dolphin waggling" while maintaining a good stream-line attitude for a bit longer than normal for that swimmer.  

The article, although of no practical value to me, set me wondering about the possibility that we tend to sneer too much at swimmers who leave the lead arm outstretched for what we think is too long! There is definitely a boost coming from the leg action, but the front of the body is in a good stream-lined attitude, so maybe we mighrt benefit by allowing that lead arm to stay outstretched "ram-rod straight" for an instant, before dropping it down to the catch - instead of our usual practice of "rushing things"!?

As one of my little freestyle "variants", I do a couple of lengths of almost full "arm catch-up" - I don't know if over the years I've learnt how to do things better - but it certainly seems to be faster even with just 2-beat kicking than I used to be able to achieve - and the answer seems to be to be that I now begin to curl the lead arm's hand over as the rear arm starts recovery.  So maybe am using the "glide" to better effect now for that "variant"!

Most of my other "variants" make use of an arm action that I think Mike disapproved of in SS forum days - he said (from his quote above) : -

"if I concentrate on eliminating the pause at the front, I get no faster and fatigue a lot sooner"

I can "get away with it" probably because I only do a few lengths before having a rest.  Although I make my down-sweep to an EVF catch slower than my pull/push, the arm action is very much a "wind-mill" one.  Am into my stroking arm's pull as the rear arm is approx at mid-recovery - so there is probably minimal glide - just enter the arm, extend it, and gently drop hand/forearm to get my high-elbow catch.

Afterthought - on the "down side" - There is one big difference between the speed of the body when streamlined at push-off from a wall  (when the legs can give a powerful initial thrust) and its speed when driven forward by a continuous flutter kick and momentum of the previous stroke, even though the front end may be stream-lined doing a very short glide. The body speed in the latter case is probably slower - so I'll just forget about the idea - back to sleep again!

Bye /  Don

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Re: glide anxiety

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