whats your main dryland exercise?

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whats your main dryland exercise?

Post by SA on Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:20 am

The dryland swimming on a mattrass/floor  arms at side of body starts to get a bit too easy, so I made it harder.

Main pressure center (pressure between body and floor) is between hips and ribcage.Legs almost straight and knees lifted from the surface as much as possible. This while hips are neutral and lower back is flat.
Arms in chicken wing style pointing a bit forward/sideways from shoulders.Also lifted a bit up from the floor with the upperback.
Now start swimming with a 6BK or 2BK. At one side leg is lifted even higher up while the same side armpit to elbow is pressed down at the main kicks. This gives a loaded corkscrew twist form front to rear, alternating in direction at every mainkick. The other side leg presses a bit on the floor while pushing the other side armpit in the floor, but not to much. Keep the centersection stable. Dont lift the hips by pushing the leg down in the floor.  Keep as much contact with the centersection to floor as possible. The centersection from hips to ribcage is the center/foundation of all this action. like a stable x-chassis on a car.
Not a good idea to eat a lot before trying.



so a simulation of this kind of swimming (swimming with upperarms), but much harder posture wise.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u0uefufl78

rolling hips and shoulders as one unit is a big coaches swim lie Twisted Evil


Last edited by SA on Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:56 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: whats your main dryland exercise?

Post by cottmiler on Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:12 am

Nice post. I like your detailed description and the video is good too. I have tried chicken wing two arms but don.t do any good at it.

Please try lying on your back on the floor and creating the correct arm stroke.

I havent seen this done anywhere but it shows you how the entire arm action must stay within the scapular plane. I don,t think a newbie will find this easy.

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Re: whats your main dryland exercise?

Post by nightcrawler on Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:35 am

I like doing the dryland exercises at home, it is time saving, especially while watching news on the tv.

For dry land exercises I have the below stuff at home:
- 2 dumbles( 4kg)
- Portable door pullup bar
- Self made exergenie ropes
- Theraband
- Fitball(75cm)
- Mattrass

I am able to do thousands of exercises with these light stuff which also takes little place in the sitting room.

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Re: whats your main dryland exercise?

Post by nightcrawler on Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:45 am

I also like burpees, I used to do it to loose some wight by the cardio effect of it:
http://blog.wodshop.com/9-reasons-love-burpees/

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Re: whats your main dryland exercise?

Post by cottmiler on Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:29 am

SA,

Have you tried to do the arm strokes when lying on your back on the floor?

Does one twist the torso and lift the shoulder off the floor to stretch forward?

This goes back to your question about torso twist or rigid body. We don't want bending at the waist like a noodle.

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Re: whats your main dryland exercise?

Post by SA on Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:40 pm

I tried laying on the back and doing the arm strokes. very easy.  EVF vertical arm and hand above top of head, while back and upperarm to elbow touches the floor. Upperarm pointing 45 degrees up(forward in swimming direction), 45 degree sideways.
Freestyle is a lot easier in this regard as butterfly because you can lift one shoulder forward while the other
moves back. This is much easier than shifting both shoulders up.
Thats another reason why catchup is not ideal for generating smooth and easy propulsion.

I guess you have read my stuff on the TI form about twisting and bending the upperbody relative to hips.
The bending should me minimised, but still more than 50 percent of elite freestylers bend the spine to give more power to the pull and get more reach for longer effective propulsive strokes at the same time.
The stretched out and slightly bended position with the extended arm nearly at the centerline is not such a bad streamlined shape is my opinion.
I cant find proof anywhere that its worse than extending with a 100% straight spine and the extended arm at the side of the vessel.
Try it with fins on at max speed. It feels pretty streamlined.

Pal Joensen twists and bends the spine a lot.
Should he swim different?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAtLvd4CPcw

Kieren Perkins is a better model to imitate compared to Hacket or Thorpe for most swimmers.
He has some bending, and a lot of spine twist. He also is fishtailing a bit. Another thing that isnt so bad as some say in my view, as long as it is done purposefull.
A passive flapping flag only causes drag, a sideways undulating fish creates propulsion. Is it possible to be right at the edge of these 2 extreme examples or even at the fish side? First find out the answer to that question before jumping to easy to sell, simplified conclusions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Bb0EM79OqE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIgstGRkTxQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPmkYBLHpqw

A big swim lie TI and SS have in common is they say its ideal to move hips and shoulders like one solid unit. Twisted Evil
I think they reached this conclusion to keep it simple. Its a lot better than the mess that can usually be seen in the pool, but its not ideal to swim like a dead stiff corps.

I blame myself for taking their coaching wisdom too literally too long.
Thats why I rather watch what swimmers do nowedays than listen to coaches very general advice.

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Re: whats your main dryland exercise?

Post by cottmiler on Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:12 am

SA, i read your post with great interst as usual. Pal swims likw Mr Smooth with hips flat and big torso twist. These swimmers have barrel chests from kids with huge lungs. They also have very powerful kicks which keep the legs very high.

It,s a long way from T.I,s "point the belly button to the side wall"! However, for a surfboard shaped oldie with sinky legs T.I advice it probably does reduce drag.

We don,t want to stress the shoulder joints by trying to twist the torso when it just isn,t flexible enough.

Shelley T.S keeps the body rigid with the aid of good flotation physiology.


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Re: whats your main dryland exercise?

Post by cottmiler on Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:31 am

Try this:

Lie flat on front on hard floor, both arms out front in streamline position.

Keep hips flat on ground and then try raising one arm so the shoulder lifts off the ground.

In my case I can lift the shoulder only about 50 mm.

So almost no torso twist is possible in water.

Doing it while standing is totally misleading.


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Re: whats your main dryland exercise?

Post by SA on Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:30 am

there is a youtube video where a guy is standing with the back against the wall doung an EVF with both arms raised as high as possible.
In this position I can hardly raise the arms above shoulder level when hand an forearm point 100% perpendicular to the wall.
I was surprised its so much easier lying on the floor.

the problem with TI swim relaxed at all costs is that an avarage adult starter doesnt have anough range of movement to make efficient movements.
Making the right moves is outside his range of movement, so its hard and difficult, not relaxed.
You can swim relaxed as a stiff person, but then you make small strokes with a dropped elbow.
Thats exactly all those TI beginners are doing. (with a lot of glide in between the small strokes)

I think the basic muscle activation that goes together with a bit of twist is more important than the absolsute amount of twist.
It forces to connect the shoulders with the hips and the kick. The shoulder twist has to be pushed from a foundation and that is the hips and legs.

if you only can lift the shoulder 5 cm in your example. this is indeed rather stiff.
I can rotate the shoulders about 45 degrees relative to hips in this example. shoulder about 30 cm from floor.
Plenty of good swimmers rotate shoulder and hips together.
The shoulder twist is more commen is sprinters strokes.
Mark Foster for example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlNpFAvt1wk

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Re: whats your main dryland exercise?

Post by SA on Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:39 pm

here are some interesting exercises for you Cottmiler. Easy or hard to do?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNQUivcLKPg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkxtTT7HFx4

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Re: whats your main dryland exercise?

Post by cottmiler on Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:18 am

The two clips on rolling with a leading arm; I could just about do it but didn't see the point.

Going back to torso twist, standing with back to wall and both arms straight up showed again only a small amount of twist - similar to lying on the front on the floor.

The spine does NOT twist. The torso twist seems to come from shoulder blade retraction but great care is needed to avoid going behind scapular plane. Any attempt to twist like Mark Foster simply results in banana bending at waist and that is what sends beginners all wrong. My first swim video is by Mark Foster many years ago, so I blame him for my slow progress!

I find it hard to believe you can twist 30 degrees like Mark. Have a closer look at your torso twisting and see what is really happening.

I conclude that plank straight like Shelley is best for oldies.

I am hoping nightcrawler will report on this, since he is a proper swimmer.

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Re: whats your main dryland exercise?

Post by SA on Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:04 am

Well. twist doesnt provide extra reach.
I have been talking about shoulder forward rearward movement a lot lately, so I tried lying face down on floor arms in front of shoulders pointing forward.
Hom much can the top of the finger reach further forward starting from symmetric when I shift on shoulder as much forward as possible? (So shifting bckward/forward without shoulder twist)

Only 5 cm! Thats less than expected. is this bad or good?

doing the soft roll. lying on back rolling over to the front without pushing of the legs to ground, only using upperbody, I can barely roll over to the front. The rest of the rolls is easy.

tried free standing shoulder twist without scapular movement. Shoulder twist at least 45 degrees shoulder plane to hips plane. Guess i am a sprinter.

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Re: whats your main dryland exercise?

Post by nightcrawler on Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:20 pm

cottmiler wrote:Try this:

Lie flat on front on hard floor, both arms out front in streamline position.

Keep hips flat on ground and then try raising one arm so the shoulder lifts off the ground.

In my case I can lift the shoulder only about 50 mm.

So almost no torso twist is possible in water.

Doing it while standing is totally misleading.


I am lifting 50cm, could i misunderstood smthng?

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Re: whats your main dryland exercise?

Post by cottmiler on Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:30 pm

We are trying to find out how much the scapular plane can rotate relative to the plane of the two hips.

It doesn,t seem easy to measure this.

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Re: whats your main dryland exercise?

Post by SA on Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:08 am

there is rotation, and there is action in the shoulderplane.
To make it more like swimming, you could swimg the upperarms forwards and backwards, while pressing a bit on one side and lifting on the side that is moving forward.
All with a L,2,3 R,2,3 6Bk tapping rhythmically on the background on the floor.
If you attach bands on the upperarms you could load the whole movment with some force.
Didnt try that, but should mimic swimming forces pretty well.
I guess this is all  about the upperbodypart helping to get forward in the water.
Its not all , but an important piece of the puzzle that can be used to a certain percentage in the whole power mix.
You want to find an optimal mix of optimal streamline and optimal power release.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q01Lk7of3vo







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