high elbow recovery uncovered

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

high elbow recovery uncovered

Post by SA on Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:51 pm

A lovely italian fish shows the basics of a relaxed high elbow recovery mechanics in sort of slowmotion from 33 to 37 sec.
Rest of the stroke is simple and effective too. Hopping nicely from anchor point to anchor point.(1min12 to 1min 20)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXEbJKQKXw0

SA

Posts : 354
Join date : 2016-12-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: high elbow recovery uncovered

Post by s.sciame on Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:59 pm

it's "only" Federica Pellegrini aka The Divine in Italy Smile Her 4th length in the 200's is stunning, she won so many races in the last meters. Great swimmer, beautiful stroke. She's recently racing backstroke too.

Salvo

PS: talking about italian swimmers, Greg Paltrinieri will debut in the 10k tomorrow. I'm so eager to see how he will do!

s.sciame

Posts : 205
Join date : 2016-12-07
Location : Rome, Italy

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: high elbow recovery uncovered

Post by SA on Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:43 pm

Pellegrini has a nice simple strong stroke.
Kapas has more of Popov like smoothness. Very slippery movement, and not looking so powerfull. She doesnt have much of an extreme EVF but still competes with the best.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U7rtZXkuaQ#t=270.418116

SA

Posts : 354
Join date : 2016-12-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: high elbow recovery uncovered

Post by nightcrawler on Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:03 pm

So SA,
If you were in Turkey, would you vote for your idol Erdogan? Smile)

nightcrawler

Posts : 610
Join date : 2016-12-20
Age : 40
Location : Istanbul/Turkey

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: high elbow recovery uncovered

Post by SA on Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:04 pm

Of course, that way you never have to vote again until 2029. Democracy is way overrated anyway. Rolling Eyes

SA

Posts : 354
Join date : 2016-12-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: high elbow recovery uncovered

Post by nightcrawler on Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:37 am

He states that Germany, Holland, Sweden and also rest of the World dont want our prosperity so that they are against of the new system. He claims that that's why we should vote for him Very Happy

nightcrawler

Posts : 610
Join date : 2016-12-20
Age : 40
Location : Istanbul/Turkey

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: high elbow recovery uncovered

Post by cottmiler on Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:01 am

I know that is all very interesting but can we concentrate our minds on getting new members to join us please.

Remember that what brought us together was our passion for swimming and sharing it with others.

We desperately need more publicity.

cottmiler

Posts : 262
Join date : 2016-12-07

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: high elbow recovery uncovered

Post by nightcrawler on Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:39 pm

Yes Cottmiler, i agree. I m only writing n this forum at the moment, have no friends on the other forums, people on my country are not interested in sports very much, this mission belings to you i think.

nightcrawler

Posts : 610
Join date : 2016-12-20
Age : 40
Location : Istanbul/Turkey

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: high elbow recovery uncovered

Post by nightcrawler on Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:41 pm

Yes Cottmiler, i agree. I m only writing on this forum at the moment, have no friends on the other forums, people in my country and around me are not interested in sports and unfortunately my students are not willing to spend time on the forums, this mission will belong to you.


Last edited by nightcrawler on Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:13 am; edited 1 time in total

nightcrawler

Posts : 610
Join date : 2016-12-20
Age : 40
Location : Istanbul/Turkey

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: high elbow recovery uncovered

Post by nightcrawler on Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:06 pm

Hi SA,
What is your opinion about the tchnique of this Galatasaray's masters team who is also ex national team swimmer:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BR3PMa9gyt5/
All Galatasaray swimmers have the same technque, small finger exits first from the water, quite straight arm recovery then thumb first entry happens, also they all have strong 6bk with catchup timing, this leads to low SPL. 30 SPL is quite giod for this 175cm swimmer.

By the way, I am faster than him in all open water races.

nightcrawler

Posts : 610
Join date : 2016-12-20
Age : 40
Location : Istanbul/Turkey

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: high elbow recovery uncovered

Post by Sprinter on Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:00 am

cottmiler wrote:I know that is all very interesting but can we concentrate our minds on getting new members to join us please.

Remember that what brought us together was our passion for swimming and sharing it with others.

We desperately need more publicity.

I don't have much to say. When over the course of the year I make some progress with my goals, then I can share my "secrets", but without such a success,
it's just a random opinion (and there are already too many of them around).

Better low quantity, higher quality, than the other way around.

Don't see any reason for "desperation"?

Sprinter

Posts : 129
Join date : 2016-12-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: high elbow recovery uncovered

Post by SA on Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:56 am

Am I allowed to talk swimming again?

I think it looks crap.If he swims this way in a race I think its too much catchup to be efficient.
Despite the 6Bk he still stalls between strokes. To get moving again from the outstretched postion you have to move the arm to catch earlier otherwise you loose speed or have to force the arm to catch postion which cost too much force for small muscles and pushes water down.
For training its Ok though. If he changes the timing a bit it resembles a good long stroke.
Thorpe swims long, but he doesnt use this timing.

My perception of extra shoulder to hiproll is that its  much easier to get a constant smooth traction on the water without having to revert to extreme EVF stuff.
The flip flop whole body rotation tends to translate to a start stop armstroke too,with a skate out phase on the side.
A continuous rotating shoulder part translates to a more continuous arm action.
The differnce between mr smooth and Karlyn Pipes Neilsons style.
To make the catchup stroke work you need
-a good propulsive kick
- a long streamlined and balanced body
- a strong catch with enough shoulder flexibility and strength to make a good EVF action.

Do you agree?

What do you think about open water technique? isnt it about the same as people where swimming 60 years ago, like the guy at the start of the film?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlGKXj8OE9M

SA

Posts : 354
Join date : 2016-12-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: high elbow recovery uncovered

Post by nightcrawler on Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:19 pm

I agree, thats why in the ipen water there is always a big gap between me and him, in the open water continuous and shorter stroke is better, especially higher cadance with less kicking. i m doing almost 2bk and while doing that imagining that i m in ow race and saving energy, swimming better times by pushing hard is not valuable for me, i m prefering 2-3 seconds slower pace but with a more comfortable technique.

nightcrawler

Posts : 610
Join date : 2016-12-20
Age : 40
Location : Istanbul/Turkey

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: high elbow recovery uncovered

Post by SA on Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:36 pm

I think a lot is personal.
KPN and mr smooth could be compared with a Porsche  or a Ferrari.
Is the Porsche better than the Ferrari?
At least they are both better than the renault clio that occupies space in the garage.
Is it easier to convert the Renault Clio into a Ferrari or into a Porsche?
That is the question for the amateur racer. Very Happy

Ferry Weertman did pretty well with his catchup stroke. What does it tell?
Nothing.

I like Jack Burnells almost no kick stroke.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYp9haPR6Dw(2 min 20)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeA4sLjExLE

SA

Posts : 354
Join date : 2016-12-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: high elbow recovery uncovered

Post by nightcrawler on Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:38 am

In Datca race in the cold and choppy water my students swam with 2:10 pace. After the race they asked me what they did wrong, because they were swimming with 1:40 pace in the pool.  I asked them on village roads which car is better Dacia Duster(the cheapest car in Turkey) or Ferrari? They laughed at me. Then I explained that they should have shifted to higher cadance and less kick technique in order to cope with the choppy water. They had already knwon this but they were afraid of doing that change in the race. Anyway, they gained experience.

All in all, both for ow and pool if anyone wants to improve after the age of 20, the below issues must be done:
1) Swimming at least 6 sessions(at least 1.5 hours per session) a week (over 25 km)
2) Dryland exercises for developing or preserving joint mobility.
3) Mustnt sit all the day in order to not to damage the joint mobility.
4) In addition to 6 sessions of swimming, must do some extra power exercises (in the pool and on dryland) in order to gain wattage, this will allow him/her swim more comfortable.


Last edited by nightcrawler on Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:04 am; edited 1 time in total

nightcrawler

Posts : 610
Join date : 2016-12-20
Age : 40
Location : Istanbul/Turkey

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: high elbow recovery uncovered

Post by SA on Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:08 am

lets add another good swimmer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrtXPBGIq2c
A strong girl with a lot of traction. textbook trunkpülling holding the upperarm in the backplane.

SA

Posts : 354
Join date : 2016-12-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: high elbow recovery uncovered

Post by nightcrawler on Tue Apr 04, 2017 1:21 pm

Before trying to swim like this (keep also in mind that it will never be) first need to do some mobility exercises.

nightcrawler

Posts : 610
Join date : 2016-12-20
Age : 40
Location : Istanbul/Turkey

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: high elbow recovery uncovered

Post by SA on Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:32 pm

I think 50% is a combination of local strength and flexibility, the other 50% is awareness.
In my opinion the 50% awareness isnt even exploited.
A lot of people can do this on dryland if they try, so it should be possible to do it in the water too if the force isnt too high.

why does this woman pull like  an avarage/better than avarage swimmer but not like Trickett? Lack of flexibility or lack of skill/awareness?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjsUucFUZcI


And another swimmer.
Seems to me this movement is doable for most people. No extreme EVF stuff but still nice traction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuN1r6RvUFk#t=81.845812

SA

Posts : 354
Join date : 2016-12-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: high elbow recovery uncovered

Post by nightcrawler on Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:36 pm

I wrote this many times:
There is an inner power(lets call this capability or in martial arts it is called the qi energy), the level of this power cant be increased to a large extent after the puberty. In my opinion, this is the difference between the strong and the weak.

nightcrawler

Posts : 610
Join date : 2016-12-20
Age : 40
Location : Istanbul/Turkey

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: high elbow recovery uncovered

Post by SA on Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:27 pm

That could be true. Saw footage some time ago of a women who had a perfect EVF big paddle on one side and a sloppy slippy paddle on the other side. Everytime the big paddle was entered in the water the whole stroke slowed down like a rabbit on an empty battery. Too much resistance on that paddle to handle.
If a swimmer is a lot faster with paddles there is energy available to make investing in  a better high traction natural paddle worthwile probably.

SA

Posts : 354
Join date : 2016-12-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: high elbow recovery uncovered

Post by nightcrawler on Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:17 am

SA wrote:
I think 50% is a combination of local strength and flexibility, the other 50% is awareness.
In my opinion the 50% awareness isnt even exploited.

If it was 50% awereness, then we would be the 50% better swimmer than our current situation bacause not too many people are reasoning, thinking and talking about swimming as we are doing.

SA wrote:
why does this woman pull like  an avarage/better than avarage swimmer but not like Trickett? Lack of flexibility or lack of skill/awareness?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjsUucFUZcI

Your above remark supports my below thesis:
I wrote this many times: There is an inner power(lets call this capability or in martial arts it is called the qi energy), the level of this power cant be increased to a large extent after the puberty. In my opinion, this is the difference between the strong and the weak. That woman in the video above is very aware of the technique and knows what to do very well but cant go as fast as Libby Tricket. Why? Because of the lack of mobility. Flexibility and mobility are different things in sport science. I was talking about mobility, it depends on not only flexibility, but also stability. The human body works in an alternating pattern of mobile and stable joints in order to produce movement. If someone cant do the proper movement on land, then can never do it in the water ; i.e can you do 100 SPM on land with proper high elbow recovery and high elbow catch and pull through? or can you do proper "YTWL" exercise for scapula joint stabilization on land?


nightcrawler

Posts : 610
Join date : 2016-12-20
Age : 40
Location : Istanbul/Turkey

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: high elbow recovery uncovered

Post by SA on Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:10 am

No, I cant do it properly at 100 strokes-min.
the windmilling straight arm movement is much easier to rev up as the high elbow half way catchup windmill timing.
This swimming movement is not in balance and feels extremely awkward at fast rates on dryland. It also wringes out the shoulders.
Catchup or windmill timing is easier. The timings inbetween require more shoulder flexibility.
Its good to try though. especially if you want to combine a straight arm recovery with a high elbow.

Never thought of the differnce between mobility and flexibility.

SA

Posts : 354
Join date : 2016-12-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Another 20 swim tips

Post by SA on Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:13 am

Filiol has his 20 tips, Gerry his 26 tips.
here another guy who wants to give tips. More aimed at swimmers instead of triathletes.
We all know them already off course.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1P2LuLd-Ew

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-H91q5RWr_A


SA

Posts : 354
Join date : 2016-12-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: high elbow recovery uncovered

Post by nightcrawler on Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:40 am

SA,
All these videos are rubbish for a natural talent swimming 50" 100m at the age of 15 with a 3-4 years of swimming background. Also makes no sense for a looser 40 years of age like me.

Anyway, lets come to grandpas' subject...  Very Happy What do you think about USA's(Trump's) Syria attack?
http://www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/autopsies-confirm-chemical-weapons-were-used-in-syria-attack/news-story/7c0c545696f3f77bd6b68eb8198fba1c

nightcrawler

Posts : 610
Join date : 2016-12-20
Age : 40
Location : Istanbul/Turkey

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: high elbow recovery uncovered

Post by SA on Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:01 am

now i can do it at 100 strokes-min on dryland.
The secrest is internal shoulder rotation. If you can seperate the internal shoulder rotation from the rest of the relaxed hanging windmilling arms, you can windmil the arms with internal shoulder rotation, making them hang in a boomerang shape most of the time, so also high elbow sort of recovery.

What do we think of this article, The high cost of good form?

http://www.slowtwitch.com/Training/General_Training/The_High_Cost_of_Good_Form_3273.html

SA

Posts : 354
Join date : 2016-12-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: high elbow recovery uncovered

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum