high elbow recovery uncovered

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Re: high elbow recovery uncovered

Post by nightcrawler on Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:33 am

Thanks for the article, quite briefly explains the situation.

What I think? I think that it refers to the stroke and race specific workout system(USRPT) that I have been following for 3+ years, the below paragraphs obviously points out these:

To use proper technique, then, you have to know what proper technique is. You might say that one cost is mental, and concentrational. But there's more. You've got to teach your body to do what your brain tells it. And, you've got to then teach your body to perform proper technique as second nature. After swimming or running for enough years, proper form becomes the default technique. You don’t have to concentrate. You don’t have to think about it. You just do it. You'll hear this process described as "fusing neural pathways," or "motor learning."

These costs I've so far described are paid by investments in time and concentration, not in sweat. But you have to pay that cost as well. Good form assumes a level of general muscular strength and general fitness. More than that, it requires very sport specific strength and fitness. Take swimming's "high elbow" described above. I've yet to find a named exercise in the gym that prepares one for that motion (though I've developed my own unnamed one). By far the best strength-building exercise for high-elbow swimming is high-elbow swimming.
-------------------------

Well, I registered to Masters World Championships 3K open water race in Budapest (Lake Balatonfüred)/Hungary, on the 11th of August. Currently I am only 1-2 seconds/50m behind my target. Last week on Thursday I did a time trial for 3K (41:23 - I could swim better, didnt push so hard), this may take me to the first 10 ranking in 40-45 age group, quite satisfactory for me. My goal is swimming around 40-41 minutes in the race, and there is still time to prepare.

Additionally, In line with the article, that you sent, you can see below that I havent been swimming any repetitions over 50m in my workouts. The reason why I have been doing this is to teach the body the target pace and proper race pace technique with proper effort.

Today's morning session(SCM, 4500m):

Set1: 30x50m freestyle int:43" (average 37.5", best:35, worst:39", mostly:37", rarely:38")

Recovery: 500 freestyle kicking with kickboard (9:26)

Set2: 30x50m freestyle int:44" (average 37", best:34, worst:40", mostly:37", rarely:38")

Recovery: 500 freestyle kicking with kickboard (9:18)

Set3: 10x50m freestyle int:42" (average 38", best:36, worst:39", mostly:38", rarely:39")

Notes: Even the young club swimmers cant do these sets with me now, actually there are 1-2 swimmers in masters that can do these sets in my country... And, if can improve and manage to do these 50 meters on 40" with 35" target pace, I will be unrivaled in masters.

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Re: high elbow recovery uncovered

Post by SA on Wed May 03, 2017 1:10 pm

This thread has a lot of good swimmers.
ThIs lady aint 18 anymore, but is still playing with smooth traction. Entry a bit shaky, but nice curved skulling actions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ovD4XMtjcA

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Re: high elbow recovery uncovered

Post by nightcrawler on Wed May 03, 2017 2:33 pm

She is diving her hand too deep into the water, loosing streamline, creating drag and performing less distance per stroke. Fingers should better point the wall during extension. The is no extension in her stroke, she is moving direcly to the catch phase.

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Re: high elbow recovery uncovered

Post by SA on Thu May 04, 2017 2:38 am

yeah, but the way she moves from the catch backwards, together with her shoulder roatation angle relative to the arm (armshape stable while shoulder rotates  a bit further to internally rotate the shoulder right before catch) is a pattern that can be seen often in (mostly female) elite swimmers.
I dont know if its something that comes from what they learned from the old S pull  times, or if its really an optimal way to connect the arm and body with the water.

Do you have an example what you think is optimal extension, or do we have to resort to your personal videos Smile

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Re: high elbow recovery uncovered

Post by nightcrawler on Thu May 04, 2017 8:20 am

She has nothing related with swim smooth(Jono Van Hazel)'s stroke, first of all she has thumb first hand entry which leads to s shape pull. Her side balance is horrible because she is rotating too much. And horizontal balance is also very bad, her legs are sinking all th time. Breathing pattern is also terrible(one google should be inside the water while breathing). She is also bending her knees while breathing due to her too much rotation.

Her timing is also very bad, pause the video at 0:32 and see over rotation, bent knee, dropped elbow, lost streamline, sinky leg, horrible breathing, terrible stoke timing, etc...

I would rather prefer watching Mr. Cottmiler's stroke than this swimmer as a better technique model Very Happy


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Re: high elbow recovery uncovered

Post by SA on Sat May 13, 2017 11:23 am

NC, what do you think of this stroke? Is this old skool teaching with a lot of hip roll and a lot of focus on pointing to the other end of the pool or is it just standard pool swim teaching?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FKnUx2W_lI

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Re: high elbow recovery uncovered

Post by SA on Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:05 am

Some nice underwater footage. So much to see that beats all the talk.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h99De9SHtnc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZn3Elf_Luc

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Re: high elbow recovery uncovered

Post by cottmiler on Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:00 am

What I look for is how the lead hand is tilting down as the exiting hand is still pushing. This is visible in the gent's case and so he keeps up a continuous traction on the water.

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Re: high elbow recovery uncovered

Post by nightcrawler on Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:03 am

SA wrote:NC, what do you think of this stroke? Is this old skool teaching with a lot of hip roll and a lot of focus on pointing to the other end of the pool or is it just standard pool swim teaching?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FKnUx2W_lI
I cant say it is old school boy technique but it is classical and common one. I am also teaching in this fashion.

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