On (flutter) kicking

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On (flutter) kicking

Post by Sprinter on Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:39 pm

I hope it is useful for some that I share my current experiences / state of thought on flutter kicking in front crawl.

To make life easy, I'll concentrate for now on the simplest exercise here, the pure flutter kicking on the front. I believe this "drill" is indispensable for swimming (and thus it is not a "drill", but an aspect of swimming itself).

First a technical aspect: I do this only with a snorkel, and that with the
https://shop.ameo.cc/en/powerbreather/ameo-powerbreather-lap-snorkel-2.0 "Powerbreather snorkel"

As usual these days, it is hard to determine what you precisely get / what you have / what is out there. It seems there are different resistance levels, and I believe I have the old standard, the "medium resistance".

I use this since middle of February 2017. The resistance takes quite a while to get used to, but I believe it is useful ("powerbreather").
I think this is currently the best device for the adult swimmer: I think it is better than the kick board (don't know about this for young swimmers -- might be different). And this design is much better than the usual frontal snorkel:
- your oxygen intake is somewhat tougher, but it is constant -- with the usual frontal snorkel, if you breath hard, then after some time the accumulation of CO2 kills at least me;
- also very important: it is very stable! so you get a really good feeling of core stability -- with the usual snorkel, there is always a wobble, while with this one  you get the feeling (after some time -- it takes perhaps 1-2 months to get used to it) of a really stable unit (using streamline position, with the hands on top of each other), and you can fully concentrate on the kick (and the core!).

Alright, now to the main business, the kicking (only).

First some numbers. Mostly I do 25m: Typically I start with around 30s (on a stiff day I can be up to 33s), after 100-200m (with some reasonable rest Cool ) it is down to 27s, getting reasonable is about 25s; currently (see below) I don't go super-hard, and then the fastest it gets is 23-24s. When I do 50m (always in the 50m pool), I only do say 4*50m, each around 60s (not going really hard -- still the breathing too much of a problem).

The main lesson I learnt here is that for my current state (and this might be the case for quite some time) it is most important "NOT TO DO SOMETHING". That is, not trying to kick very hard, or going for a big kick -- that won't yield much, but always results (for me) in bad form.

There is somewhere some magic here, and that comes with the "flow", the "relaxed speed". Important the up-kick (likely due to stiffness -- otherwise bending in the hips!). Throwing the legs "easily up". Somehow it must work "by itself". One must feel the propulsion (via the core/abs). The water must get stiff around the feet, and that must yield a force *forward*. In this way in a relatively relaxed way (so well ...) 23s / 25m can be reached (and it feels good!).

Actively using the quads seems currently not effective: feeling the glutes, that's most important, while the legs otherwise are as relaxed as possible. Very constant and quick movements. As soon as I actively try to kick hard, there is too much bend in the hips and knees.

By the way, a very false idea seems to me to do anything with the shinbones: as you can easily observe with bad kickers, and you can also try it out yourself, you can spend endless energy in this way, while basically not moving.

The positive effect of getting the feet high out of the waters seems (for us) to be that it enables relaxation, and works against bending in the hips.

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Re: On (flutter) kicking

Post by SA on Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:17 am

FWIW my crap kicking feels best if I imagine that my legs stop at the knees, so you are driving only the upper legs up and down and let the rest flap along like fins or like a flag on a moved stick.
And some tension to point the feet if your feet dont point backwards on their own. That the difficulty with stiffer ankles I guess, relax or tension and how much?

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Re: On (flutter) kicking

Post by Sprinter on Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:41 am

SA wrote: That the difficulty with stiffer ankles I guess, relax or tension and how much?
I remember some GoSwim video about kicking, where at the end it is said "and don't forget to point your toes".

I guess it needs to be a permanent battle: sometimes focussing and pointing, sometimes letting loose.

In my case, I actively monitor the fault of my left foot to point outwards, and correct that (that doesn't seem to affect the floppiness of the feet). None of the coaches yet told me to point my toes, so I only worry about them being floppy (and hope "nature" will do its thing; it's said that over the years the constant stretch on the feet by the kicking makes them more flexible).

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Re: On (flutter) kicking

Post by SA on Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:51 am

I spoke someone in who knows a bit about stretching, and it seems quite easy to stretch to the level you had when you where 17 years old. (a few months), but from there you are limited by genetics.
half an hour a day is needed. You dont have to stretch very hard, but some lengthening tension is needed.

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Re: On (flutter) kicking

Post by s.sciame on Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:40 pm

Sprinter wrote:I hope it is useful for some that I share my current experiences / state of thought on flutter kicking in front crawl.

...

The main lesson I learnt here is that for my current state (and this might be the case for quite some time) it is most important "NOT TO DO SOMETHING". That is, not trying to kick very hard, or going for a big kick -- that won't yield much, but always results (for me) in bad form.


Thanks for the sharing, Sprinter. By the way I also like what you wrote in the other thread about getting the kick INDEPENDENT (ie steady) of anything else before worrying about integration in the stroke. Being a poor kicker I don't like kicking sets in general. However one of the few happy things I found about kicking is that distance per kick seems to remain quite stable when you increase kicking rate. So the faster you kick the faster you go, you don't have all the complicated catch&pull mechanics of the stroke.
Today I did a kick rate ramp test, based on 25's with front snorkel and arms in streamlined position. To be compliant with specificity principle (ie avoid to kick at rates or intensities I cannot apply to swimming), I set TT in mode 3 (SPM), synched 3 kicks for each beep and kicked in the range I mostly swim at (65 to 85SPM). Curiously enough, at the slowish rates (<70SPM) I also needed more beeps to complete a length. Then, from above 70SPM and up to 86, kicks per length settled to a stable value so I progressively went faster just by following TT (and NOT by kicking harder). Of course following the beep at 86SPM was less comfortable than at 75.
Then I tried to integrate this continuous and even kick into swimming with a few fast 25's and here I understood how many undetected pauses my kick usually does when I swim.

A couple of questions: your kicking times per 25m look very good and much better than mine. Do you remember where you started and how long it took you to get there? Do you kick a lot of air when using snorkel and arms streamlined in front (like it happens to me)?

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Re: On (flutter) kicking

Post by Sprinter on Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:12 pm

s.sciame wrote:
However one of the few happy things I found about kicking is that distance per kick seems to remain quite stable when you increase kicking rate. So the faster you kick the faster you go, you don't have all the complicated catch&pull mechanics of the stroke.
It seems there is a range of efficient kicking: not too slow (perhaps not enough vortices around the feet to kick "against"?), and not too fast (when I try to go faster than 23s/25m (which feels powerwise possible), then somehow "I am loosing it", loosing resistance).

s.sciame wrote:
Curiously enough, at the slowish rates (<70SPM) I also needed more beeps to complete a length.

A certain "fluidity" of the legs perhaps is needed? Somehow a "motor" is needed.

s.sciame wrote:
Then, from above 70SPM and up to 86, kicks per length settled to a stable value so I progressively went faster just by following TT (and NOT by kicking harder). Of course following the beep at 86SPM was less comfortable than at 75.
Then I tried to integrate this continuous and even kick into swimming with a few fast 25's and here I understood how many undetected pauses my kick usually does when I swim.
Definitely non-trivial, the continuous kicking action. Therefore, as you confirmed, it seems rather dangerous to try to impose some rhythm, since that will very likely further stall the kicking (and this is hard to detect, if one doesn't have already a reasonable feeling for the kicking).

s.sciame wrote:
A couple of questions: your kicking times per 25m look very good and much better than mine.
I hope I finally have a reasonable grasp on the issue. In the past I tried too hard (in the wrong direction) ...

s.sciame wrote:
Do you remember where you started and how long it took you to get there?

I started around September 2013 doing some kicking (always with snorkel).
Around September 2014, at least for 25m pure kicking, I reached a speed not much different from today, but I had a very large kick: for pure kicking, that is sub-optimal, but nevertheless makes you somewhat faster -- however it severely restricts the speed for the full stroke.
And actually, there wasn't so much kicking for the full stroke, especially concerning the right leg (nearly did nothing, while the left leg did a very wide kick).
From around May 2016 then I started the concentration on the sprinting, with more (and more .. and more ... and more ... and more  Surprised kicking), smaller (and smaller ... and smaller ... and smaller ...) kicks, more continuous (and more continuous ...  Razz hope you get the picture).

s.sciame wrote:
Do you kick a lot of air when using snorkel and arms streamlined in front (like it happens to me)?
When doing (individual) sessions with coaches, I always get praised when the kick becomes audible (and the highest praise when everybody gets wet Very Happy ), so there must be something good about it. But I am rather sure, that this is not about the splashing for itself, but that for me (and I guess many adults) good kicking can only be achieved in this way. I think only very good kickers have the strength etc. to just barely touch the surface. So well, the sprinters typically splash a lot, because they are riding high, that might also play a role.

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Re: On (flutter) kicking

Post by cottmiler on Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:55 am

sprinter, how do you like this drill to help get a flutter kick?

http://www.championshipproductions.com/news/2013/06/28/gain-speed-and-efficiency-with-this-pencil-float-progression/


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Re: On (flutter) kicking

Post by nightcrawler on Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:54 am

Check out Chloe's video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRsF6HN8kmk

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Re: On (flutter) kicking

Post by nightcrawler on Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:02 am

Enjoy the best of both worlds while training Very Happy
Perform five time salaat(prayer) in a day in order to have flexible ankles like Paul does Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
http://www.swimsmooth.com/kick.html


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Re: On (flutter) kicking

Post by Sprinter on Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:53 pm

cottmiler wrote:sprinter, how do you like this drill to help get a flutter kick?

http://www.championshipproductions.com/news/2013/06/28/gain-speed-and-efficiency-with-this-pencil-float-progression/

Looks reasonable; developing that independence of the kick (steady, stable).

Though I guess I won't do it (at least for now): I do only drills where I have a very concrete need (a concrete problem); I also fear that without a coach observing the drill (again and again) uncontrolled movements creep in (since these drills don't have a measurable goal, different from full swimming).

But what about you, as a drill-lover?!

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Re: On (flutter) kicking

Post by Sprinter on Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:54 pm

nightcrawler wrote:Check out Chloe's video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRsF6HN8kmk
Looks all fine to me (but also nothing new, as far as I can see).

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Re: On (flutter) kicking

Post by Sprinter on Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:59 pm

nightcrawler wrote:Enjoy the best of both worlds while training  Very Happy  
Perform five time salaat(prayer) in a day in order to have flexible ankles like Paul does Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy
Can't sit on my knees (already for a very long time); I do similar exercises instead, but shorter (and more intense). Perhaps I should extend that ...

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Re: On (flutter) kicking

Post by cottmiler on Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:35 am

sprinter asked "But what about you, as a drill-lover?!"

I don't do frantic kick training as it got me nowhere in the past and uses too much oxygen.

Just for balance.

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Re: On (flutter) kicking

Post by s.sciame on Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:45 pm

Sprinter wrote:

To make life easy, I'll concentrate for now on the simplest exercise here, the pure flutter kicking on the front. I believe this "drill" is indispensable for swimming (and thus it is not a "drill", but an aspect of swimming itself).


I have to thank you Sprinter for starting this thread. Did another 200m of pure flutter kicking on the front with snorkel today and I didn't get bored, which is a really good sign Smile I believe I'm not getting bored this time because, if practiced in the fashion you describe here, kicking is neither a drill nor a pure fitness exercise but something more specific to be integrated into full stroke (at race pace eventually). The first few 25's at 100m race pace right after an 8x25 kick set felt sooo smooth.

Anyway, regardless of whether you train for short or long distances, I believe any adult beginner could only benefit from investing some pool time in putting a snorkel on, assuming a well streamlined position + taut and aligned body posture and kick on front with his best technique. Possibly at rates which fit his stroke rates (otherwise it would be a non specific drill). Moreover it's something that builds a solid platform, gives stability, prevents overrotation, misalignment etc. In a way it's like ironing the stroke after a set and getting it ready for the next one.

Another thought for us adult beginners: the stiffer the ankles the faster and narrow we need to kick to go somewhere. Good kickers with flexible ankles can get away pretty fast at slowish rates too, just like we do when wearing a pair of fins. We instead need to kick at faster rates to compensate for our more or less limited ankle flexibility (kicking wider is not an option because it usually ends up increasing drag). The same applies for the stroke by the way: the stiffer the upper body the less Thorpe model we should follow. Maybe another good reason to patiently and gradually work on improving stroke rate.

Salvo

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Re: On (flutter) kicking

Post by s.sciame on Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:19 am

More about this topic:

https://www.yourswimlog.com/the-kickswim-set-the-simple-way-to-become-a-faster-swimmer/

This guy writes a lot about kicking. Note this:

Keeping the kick tempo the same once you transition to swimming is the real secret to making this set work for you.

Salvo

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Re: On (flutter) kicking

Post by Sprinter on Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:22 am

s.sciame wrote:
I have to thank you Sprinter for starting this thread. Did another 200m of pure flutter kicking on the front with snorkel today and I didn't get bored, which is a really good sign Smile I believe I'm not getting bored this time because, if practiced in the fashion you describe here, kicking is neither a drill nor a pure fitness exercise but something more specific to be integrated into full stroke (at race pace eventually). The first few 25's at 100m race pace right after an 8x25 kick set felt sooo smooth.

Glad that it helped you!

Directly after a kick-set, I am very stiff in the shoulders, and it takes a few lengths to recover from that. I do recover, and I think altogether it's fine, but such quick alternations between kicking and full stroke don't work for me. Hm, not sure about just 25m kicking alternating with 25m full stroke, whether this might work. I'll try, but my feeling is that even this might create some problems.

I like a lot to swim the first say 5m only kicking (25m lane), and then starting the full stroke.

s.sciame wrote:
Anyway, regardless of whether you train for short or long distances, I believe any adult beginner could only benefit from investing some pool time in putting a snorkel on, assuming a well streamlined position + taut and aligned body posture and kick on front with his best technique.
I believe it's also an important investment into "old age", where in my observation leg-activity decreases dramatically, and swimming could take over that -- but, alas, the old guys I see never kicked much, and then they resent it; and it takes years to develop the kick.

s.sciame wrote:
Possibly at rates which fit his stroke rates (otherwise it would be a non specific drill).
I have certain doubts about that principle of training specifically to the target:
First, what is the target? Is it really that important to swim in 59.12 days a distance of 1234m in 987.2s? The answer is, of course, "yes and no"  Very Happy
Especially for the adult learners, I think it is natural that the targets are moving a lot. Sure, after some time, a first real target arrives, but altogether I think we have much more variation than elite swimmers (who actually swim close to *absolute* limits!).
Then, all of USRPT is based on observations about young elite swimmers. And they can focus -- but I think the older you get the more of a certain shotgun approach is needed. The body is ailing more and more, on all fronts.

It is likely helpful for the motivation to develop concrete targets, and to really "target" them, but it won't be Olympic Gold (in most our cases I guess), and there might be a good (natural) deal of variation.

So with the kicking, I believe a typical trap for a triathlete is to say "my target is ..., and so the kick is not important".

We adult learners live in higher-dimensional spaces than those young guns.

Nevertheless, in my case those European Championships September 2018 are already asserting a good pull, so that is really helpful. But something in the direction of USRPT I definitely don't start yet (perhaps 6 months before the event) -- there is still too much (good) change everywhere.

And, OF COURSE, it helps to just swim 50m  bounce yet nobody told me that I need to cap my kicking (that makes life so much easier hi hi).

s.sciame wrote:
Moreover it's something that builds a solid platform, gives stability, prevents overrotation, misalignment etc. In a way it's like ironing the stroke after a set and getting it ready for the next one.
Well said.

s.sciame wrote:
Another thought for us adult beginners: the stiffer the ankles the faster and narrow we need to kick to go somewhere. Good kickers with flexible ankles can get away pretty fast at slowish rates too, just like we do when wearing a pair of fins. We instead need to kick at faster rates to compensate for our more or less limited ankle flexibility (kicking wider is not an option because it usually ends up increasing drag). The same applies for the stroke by the way: the stiffer the upper body the less Thorpe model we should follow. Maybe another good reason to patiently and gradually work on improving stroke rate.
Seems reasonable.

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Re: On (flutter) kicking

Post by Sprinter on Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:48 pm

LONG! LONG! LONG!

Today I think I unfolded some aspects of the "mystery of flutter kicking". Wednesday at my fitness session I did hard leg training (a variation of box jumping), and then Thursday I had much soreness in the legs. So well, as expected, kicking was much slower (say 20% slower). But what bothered me that I didn't understand it *physically*, I couldn't *feel* where the problems are.

With the  pull, with sore upper-body muscles the pull also suffers much, but meanwhile I not only "know it abstractly", but I can feel (to a certain degree) where the problems are. Not so with the kicking, where I couldn't feel it ("shouldn't it be possible for just 25m to overcome the problems? where are they??").

My guess what that is has to do with a restricted up-kick. So well, at the end of the session, at least with the full stroke, much emphasise on kicking, focus on the up-kick, I could reach (nearly) my default benchmark (with 0.9 s / stroke the 25m in 18s), with medium pull.

Today still quite some soreness in the legs. Did mostly 50m's, starting with 72s, working down to 60s. Again trying to feel why so slow (especially at the beginning). And I got the distinct feeling of a LONG LEG. Actually you can make your leg really long, very relaxed in the ankle, and the short small whipping action very relaxed (nothing forced). And that felt really good, and speed improved.

From Salvo's recommended articles on kicking I took one new (for me) piece, the one-leg kick. For the beginning, I did just one 25m per leg, the other leg as straight and immobile as possible. Felt a bit strange, but interesting. And I had the feeling that it also helped getting a better perception of being "tall and straight" in the water -- with the kick!

Then doing the full stroke (strong kicking). And at the beginning I could feel very strongly how the straight line was broken in the legs! Likely broken at the hips, but perhaps also at the knees. Concentrating on the feeling of "long long legs" (otherwise relaxed, with good up-kick), that worked out, and got my default benchmark as above (25m in 18s with 0.9s/stroke, strong kick, precise, but medium pull) very nicely (quite easy and reproducible).

So I think this hopefully shows good progress. I had these ideas/impressions/sensations already before, but today I felt it quite consciously. So it seems at least for me an important aspect, towards a better kick, on its own and integrated into the full stroke.

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Re: On (flutter) kicking

Post by cottmiler on Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:12 am

sprinter, after your advances you will soon be able to work on the Egyptian Crawl!
Favourite of Thomas Lutz.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVCjbTX7eqs

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Re: On (flutter) kicking

Post by Sprinter on Sat Jun 24, 2017 5:21 pm

cottmiler wrote:
Favourite of Thomas Lutz:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVCjbTX7eqs

Thanks. I try that as a variation for the one-leg kicking (where this idea anyway occurred to me).
Don't know for the full stroke: might be too disturbing.

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Re: On (flutter) kicking

Post by Sprinter on Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:53 pm

Tried with one-leg kicking (arms streamlined) to bend the other knee and lift it up: didn't work -- either there is too much movement in both legs, or, if I keep the up-leg really stiff, then within seconds a big cramp is looming.

Didn't try it with full stroke -- don't see that would help (on the contrary).

I guess the problem is that the legs and hips are too stiff, not (yet) possible for me to kick with one leg, and do something else with the other leg.

I guess I will do a bit of one-leg kicking, and there I'll experiment with lifting the other leg: lifting it a bit out of the water is possible, and it might be possible to extend this over time.

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Re: On (flutter) kicking

Post by cottmiler on Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:40 pm

Mrs Cott can do Egyptian Crawl because of better flotation.

I have to thrash the one leg up and down like mad in order to swim a few meters because my back end drops so much.

You need the crawl arm stroke to keep moving forward.

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Re: On (flutter) kicking

Post by Sprinter on Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:18 pm

cottmiler wrote:Mrs Cott can do Egyptian Crawl because of better flotation.
I have to thrash the one leg up and down like mad in order to swim a few meters because my back end drops so much.
You need the crawl arm stroke to keep moving forward.

My feeling was that in principle just using one leg, nothing else, would work: just using one leg means roughly a slowdown of 30% to me (compared to pure kicking with two legs), and with one leg up, that didn't seem to become worse. But the main problem was the cramping in the leg held up (in the biceps femoris).

I guess I'll survive without that.

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freestyle lower end propulsion?

Post by Don Wright on Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:26 am

SA wrote:FWIW  my crap kicking feels best if I imagine that my legs stop at the knees, so you are driving only the upper legs up and down and let the rest flap along like fins or like a flag on a moved stick.
And some tension to point the feet if your feet dont point backwards on their own. That the difficulty with stiffer ankles I guess, relax or tension and how much?

So "SA" seems to be in the same "slow kickers" club as me (flutter kicking on the side in the conventional way with almost straight legs, takes me "of the order" of minutes to kick just 20m!  Rolling Eyes ).  The problem in my case is those darned arthritic ankles/feet - if I kick conventionally, and too deep, I "hook" water forwards as the kick downbeat ends.  Pointing the toes is not an easy matter (e.g. the kick upbeat when doing back crawl is painful at the insteps - the reason I don't experience that when kicking on the "tum" is that I probably don't get my insteps into an attitude where there is any noticeable water pressure on them - a "frozen" attitude?).  

I liked "SA"'s comment about : -

"...kicking feels best if I imagine that my legs stop at the knees, so you are driving only the upper legs up and down and let the rest flap along like fins or like a flag on a moved stick..."

 This is precisely what it feels like when recently I re-suscitated an old technique I found out a couple of years ago, but left to languish while concentrating on other things!  In this I concentrate on wavering just the thighs rapidly up/down through a small angle - such that the knee at it's lowest point is probably some 10" below the surface/torso line - before returning the thigh back to the torso line - all the while, leaving the lower legs/feet completely relaxed.  This results in a gratifying steady movement forwards, far exceeding the miserable progress I get if using a conventional style.

I wondered yesterday, just what it was about that technique that produced such a good result - and think I've come up with a valid answer!  When the knee is at it's lowest point and the thigh is moving back up - the sole of the foot is pushing water backwards giving motion forwards.  So it's not really "kicking" as such, but has more of a similarity with "treading water" when vertical in deep water to keep the head above the water - except the body is prone and the action is tighter/tidier, also there is no explicit kicking action applied by the lower legs/feet.  I originally found it awkward to add in my usual arm action because doing the rapid thigh movements as one rolls, put me off a bit - so more practice at that needed - and I "run out of steam" soon!

My current favourite "lower body propulsion" method is I hope strongly akin to the smooth/gradual body flexing of a dolphin for instance.  A fish since it has no legs, uses taut/gradual  or undulating muscular movements from it's head to it's tail to push against the water.   This is what am hoping I do when I swim this variant of freestyle without any explicit kicking.  When I referred to this on our old SS forum, I referred to it as a quick downward flick of the hip on the same side as the entering arm,  but after much use of that style I would amend that to say that the whole body starting with the shoulder of the entering arm, quickly and smoothly along the body's length, tries to emulate such a quick whole body fish-like action - but leaving the legs/feet completely relaxed to follow on "doing whatever"!  I also originally likened it to the action of picking up a rope laying out straight on the floor and giving it a shake to send a ripple down it.  However, an undulation cannot of itself produce any forward movement - there has to be some pre-existing forward movement from the last stroke or a" reaching forwards" (as is required in UW body dolphin) and more importantly - the various flexible parts of the body participating in an undulation must of course be pressing backwards at some stage of the action to momentarily apply pressure on the water.  Using this freestyle variant, there may be too much upward lifting of the body (when rolling to inhale) so that needs a bit of monitoring to make sure the head doesn't come above the surface due to the vigorous arm/body roll action!

Bye / Don

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Re: On (flutter) kicking

Post by Mike A on Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:10 pm

...an undulation cannot of itself produce any forward movement...
It most certainly can, as this is how all fish swim. However, achieving any significant effect with the human body, with our relatively inflexible spines, can be quite challenging. The principle is that the body takes on a wave shape, then moves that shape continually backwards, with the effect that all parts of the surface that have a vertical component apply backwards pressure on the water. A screw/propeller applies the same principle, except the whole wave shape is applied in all rotations about the direction of travel.
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Re: On (flutter) kicking

Post by Don Wright on Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:46 pm

Thank you Mike!  "Correction is the high road to life, neglect reproof and you miss the way!"   I was thinking what happens to a partly filled/immersed bottle bobs up/down in waves, it doesn't seem to make much progress for a long while.

(Sorry to read about your dad falling for a scam - I didn't tell you the worst incident : I was continually being "buzzed" by some chap saying he had proof that my old BT email a/c was being hacked (he was indeed true and I expect he was one of them)  He said he could prove it to me. and "muggins" fool that I was, fell for it, and ended up implementing "Team Viewer" s/w (at a charge) ostensibly so he could show me evidence - then he transferred me to his financial dept, to do the card payment for the s/w, and to give me a remittance (the "lollipop" offer that fools so many) on a now expired so-called previous contract which I had had with a now-transferred firm (Fix-Us?) some years ago - when they got me out of a mess when my screen was frozen on a red window (an action deliberately instigated by them I suspect - like the "ransom-ware" problem that hit many recently).  Foolishly I went into internet banking to see what was happening with the account supposed to receive the remittance, forgetting the "Team-Viewer" s/w was still active - they saw every action I took and I noticed some jiggling around with the mouse cursor as I looked!  During that they moved some £9000 of our savings (unbeknown to me cos off the screen) into the a/c supposed to receive the "remittance".  They then apologised profusely saying they had made a very big mistake and could I transfer the big excess back to them (some private a/c they specified).  Immediately alarm bells went off in my head, and I shut everything down and shot into town to see what the bank would say.  My bank set things back as they should have been, and of course I stopped my Visa card and reset my computer back to it's factory state.  It was quite an "argy-bargy" getting back to a working state again!  If the phone rings now, we pick it up and if the person doesn't immediately announce themselves as recognizable to us, we just shut the call down!  Once bitten-twice shy!)

I think this business of "reaching forward" into the next action is an important feature - remembering back to the advice from ex-Olympic chap Tom Jager advising us to "Reach for the light bulb" when extending the arm after it's water entry (without twisting the torso badly!)

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Re: On (flutter) kicking

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